Economics Questions

Re: About Roads

SirThinkALot — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:03:12 GMT

It should also be pointed out(and I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet) that in an anarcho-cap society not all roads may require a toll. Some probably will, but others might find it better(more profitable) to let drivers get on for free, and charge for advertising along them(ex. Billboards), or to charge businesses to build an exit from the road to their business.

Just a thought.

Re: About Roads

CernelJoson — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:09:52 GMT

Roads? Where we're going we don't need...roads.

Re: About Roads

Marko — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:03:41 GMT

The real solution is probably car pooling. It is what poor people do. They (we) ride buses.

But it can also be pointed out that it makes no economic sense for the road owner to charge more than his only potential customers can afford to pay. Even if the toll is so low that it does not cover the maintence costs, not charging any toll (because no one is using the road) will lead to even higher loses.

And we all know that for such a scenario to come about the state probably had to come involved in at one point. Because in an ancap revolution such a road would promptly get seized by the Small Town Road Company in which every household would have one share (initially).

Re: About Roads

filc — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:48:22 GMT

I respect your opinion Dave.

Re: About Roads

jmorris84 — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 03:39:51 GMT

A New Hope:
Letting the man die may be a pr nightmare for the owner of the desert. If he doesn't save the one legged man, nobody will want to vacation at his numerous desert resorts or use his tour services.

A lot of people lose their entire savings, cars, or home in Vegas and the casinos couldn't really give a crap about it. Nor does that stop me from going and having a good time myself! :)

Re: About Roads

Laotzu del Zinn — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:42:41 GMT

"If people can't afford to use the road, then they will have to stop using it, meaning that the road owner will not be able to make a profit or even maintain the road."

Unless it is a major thoroughfare to other towns, but still the only one in and out of the original town.

Re: About Roads

A New Hope — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:25:33 GMT

Letting the man die may be a pr nightmare for the owner of the desert. If he doesn't save the one legged man, nobody will want to vacation at his numerous desert resorts or use his tour services.

Re: About Roads

Laotzu del Zinn — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:22:03 GMT

"show me this town on googlemap airview"

Look up Craig Beach, Ohio. There is one road in and out of town; Grandview Ave (actually, my gps says there's another, so google might too, but i assure you, the road leading west is not there).

Re: About Roads

Smiling Dave — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:14:51 GMT

filc:

What do we stand to gain by entering into such thought games? Not trying to be condescending but I am serious. What benefit do we derive? Perhaps you can help squelch my cynicism.

A few benefits:

1. The enjoyment of intellectual play.

2. Sharpening our understanding of AE.

3. Removing an objection the OP considers a serious one.

Of course, just as not everyone enjoys pizza or chinese food, not everyone will enjoy such a discussion. Different strokes.

Re: About Roads

filc — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:44:32 GMT

I have another question I am also having problems resolving.

Lets say we live in purely market economy, no state involved, and a private organization owns this huge desert and there is a man in the middle of it dying of thirst. Not only that he has one leg and he cannot walk out. It's likely that the owner of the desert won't bother to go out and save him. This man is likely to die.

Whats the solution here?!!?!?

Sorry for the extreme satire but my point is that anyone can setup a scenario with arbitrary restrictive variables that will create a situation of failure, market oriented or not. In the case of roads we have no earthly idea how that would be formated on the market. We can only guess as to what the solution would be, though I would assume such a situation would likely never occur in the first place. Like my story above, how does a one legged man end up in the desert by himself in the first place? As far as alternatives people have already begun to mention just a few good ideas just off the top of their head, like dirtbikes! There are countless alternatives and solutions here and who knows what innovation would bring.

What do we stand to gain by entering into such thought games? Not trying to be condescending but I am serious. What benefit do we derive? Perhaps you can help squelch my cynicism.

Re: About Roads

Smiling Dave — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:23:30 GMT

Walter Block discusses it here at about the 42 minute mark.

Re: About Roads

Marko — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:47:45 GMT

Simples. You don't use the road.

or:

Re: About Roads

Felipe — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:39:35 GMT

"So how does he afford the car and gas? Should we have the State involved in that too since you and others are too poor and are "imprisoned" in your little town."

Why the hostility man?

The situation is a semi-hypothetical situation I heard in college about a small town surrounded by roads concessed to private companies by the state.

I took the state out of the equation because I thought it would be too simple to say "the state has the fault", maybe it has but I wanted a free market aproach.

Re: About Roads

DD5 — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:39:46 GMT

So how does he afford the car and gas? Should we have the State involved in that too since you and others are too poor and are "imprisoned" in your little town.

Re: About Roads

A New Hope — Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:22:17 GMT

First, I don't think that this circumstance would be common. Nobody is going to build a road in the first place if someone cannot afford it. A poor town may not need an expensive super highway running through it. They may be able to get by with a dirt or gravel road, which would probably not have very high construction costs and someone who owns a vehicle would likely be able to afford. In the unlikely case that this circumastance occurs, I think there are several solutions.

1. If people can't afford to use the road, then they will have to stop using it, meaning that the road owner will not be able to make a profit or even maintain the road. The road owner will try to reduce his fees, but if he can't reduce the fees enough then he is going to go out of business Once the owner realizes that he is sunk , he can either sell the road to someone who will run it more efficiently, or he may abandon it if the road's maintenance costs are too high to even warrant owning.

2. People of the town could build another road by building on portions of their individual properties, or they can sell land for the purpose of constructing a road.

3. People could begin carpooling, reducing the cost to each individual.

4. People could use alternative forms of transportation. The town may be walking distance from a train station, or a bus company may have stops within the town. Is the town near a water source? If there is a river or a large lake, then boats could be used as transportation. Fees may need to be paid for the use of the waterway.

These are only a few possible solutions, but I don't think this situation would be common in a free market.