Economics Questions

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

Le Master — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:56:33 GMT

Like other's have said, the music industry, and also the fashion industry, the literature industry, the automotive industry, etc. Actors seeking ends in these areas find order. They almost unconsciously know the means in which to pursue in order to achieve the ends of, say, a pair of pants, an album, a certain car. This convenience and order of means arose out of entrepreneurs seeking to benefit themselves by meeting the wants of the consumer.

I'd even go as far as saying to look at the "sovereign states" of the world -- even their boundaries and interaction can be said to be ordered spontaneously, as no central government designated them. While libertarians would hardly say any State is "order," their interaction with one another is ordered spontaneously.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

TANSTAAFL — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:23:44 GMT

Here in the land of 10,000 lakes there is spontaneous order when large numbers of fishermen take their boats to popular lakes.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

jay — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:58:18 GMT

"As for the music industry, I suppose he means that nobody plans what music becomes popular."

I mentioned the music industry because it's not centrally planned, especially the independent scene. There's a agglomeration of artists, venues, studios, promoters, media outlets, designers, etc.., that just somehow "works". Really, it's just like any other industry; I just mentioned it because I've been involved with it for some time now.

But you're right, there's no accounting for taste in the music industry. There's no explanation why some bands/artists "make it" further than others.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

Drew — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:57:37 GMT

Obviously you make plans for yourself, you just can't plan for others. Since everybody plans to do what they think is best for them, spontaneus order just happens.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

EmperorNero — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:25:58 GMT

Consumariat:
Aren't these just thing that people have decided to do? Isn't tha the opposite of what we mean by spontaneous in this context?

Religious movements to a certain degree evolved. The fact that most people find jobs is something that nobody plans either. The internet is not controlled or planned by any one person. And the institution of marriage also evolved rather than being planned by design. As for the music industry, I suppose he means that nobody plans what music becomes popular.

Edit: I agree though that when we ask for examples of spontaneous order we usually mean that the order isn't anticipated or desired by anyone.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

Consumariat — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 02:45:51 GMT

The Internet.

Marriage.

The music industry (it's obviously regulated, but artist careers have rest very indirectly on state involvement).

Most people who have found jobs.

Religious movements and choosing a belief system about the supernatural/metaphysical.

Aren't these just thing that people have decided to do? Isn't tha the opposite of what we mean by spontaneous in this context?

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

EmperorNero — Tue, 22 Mar 2011 02:27:11 GMT

Ant colonies.

Urbanization.

Biological evolution.

Particle physics after the big bang.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

garegin — Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:48:29 GMT

i know my comment was a pic off topic. but its related to the question as to why states are almost always so successful.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

jay — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:43:29 GMT

Huh?

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

garegin — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 05:54:52 GMT

"1. The state created x.

2. Therefore, only the state could have created x."

i find marx's explanation crude but somewhat satisfactory. social conditions are not the result of ideology or random but are caused by the underlying conditions. states always are where civilization is- this is not a crazy fluke. for things to change something that causes this has to change.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

jay — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 14:59:05 GMT

Also, you might want to approach this presupposition:

1. The state created x.

2. Therefore, only the state could have created x.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

jay — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 14:54:18 GMT

The Internet.

Marriage.

The music industry (it's obviously regulated, but artist careers have rest very indirectly on state involvement).

Most people who have found jobs.

Religious movements and choosing a belief system about the supernatural/metaphysical.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

garegin — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:19:28 GMT

i dont see why socialists see that planning is the way to go (even if it worked smoothly). the idea of centrally planning something very complex that already works seems idiotic. i think once wealth equality and social ownership of means of prod. are inplemented the only method would be planning.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

John James — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 06:38:36 GMT

Someone mentioned the Internet, but of course you'll get ignorants who say "that was started by government! The Internet is a government creation! So without government, there wouldn't be any Internet!" So here's a short rebuttal to that nonsense.

Here's the piece where John Stossel talks about spontaneous order

And here's a link to the full John Stossel special. Send them that link. That will help out a lot.

Re: Examples of spontaneous order

Micah71381 — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 06:44:38 GMT

Just read I, Pencil for the first time and I have to say, a perfect example for the OP! It evokes emotion while still remaining true which is something that I find the logical party of many arguments lacks (and often why logic looses).