Economics Questions

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Laotzu del Zinn — Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:50:28 GMT

I would have to say "a fairy is" in order to dispute its' existence as well.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

liberty student — Thu, 21 Apr 2011 05:30:38 GMT

One might assert that. Probably someone who thinks he is a citizen of something.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Brutus — Thu, 21 Apr 2011 04:43:18 GMT

liberty student:

A citizen is someone who swears an oath of allegiance in return for a duty of protection. There is no duty to protect, the state has ZERO duty to you or anyone else (sovereign immunity), according to their own legal rulings. This means all of the taxes and loyalty offered to the state in return for "citizenship" is a delusion.

One might assert that by beginning your sentence, "A citizens is..." that you are committing an ontological fallacy since you have repeatedly claim that citizens don't exist. What is this citizen of which you speak?

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Jack Roberts — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:38:16 GMT

Democracy is destined to fail because people will always vote for socialism or free stuff. So in some ways democracy which is meant to be the beacon of a free society is actually the complete opposite. If two politicians stand up and the one says that i will give you, free house, free healthcare, free education for your children and even free money when you lose your job and the other stands up and says you have to work hard in this world to get a house and all things you desire. The socialist will get the vote and this is why democracy is destined to fail because the governments could never take enough taxation from the population to fund the promises that they have made to gain power. So when you are voting for a socialist government you are voting for a bigger government and in effect less freedom, because the larger the government gets the less freedom you have.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Ron Marquis — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:34:40 GMT

So while your working that out......let me comment, like they want me to stop lol....I'm amazed this "thread" has survived to a second page.

There must be something gained from visiting by so many, again and again. Perhaps it's been determined that if for nothing else I am at least, a good exercise in futility.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Ron Marquis — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:25:11 GMT

I'm still partial to the old wooden stock and metal parts models. I don't always need to change clips just to knock someone's block off. But thanks for the glimpse of what I hope is part of your personal collection.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Valject — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:22:25 GMT

"Please do not apologize on my account. I had no idea what frenzy my ignorance would spark. I'm afraid you've taken a seat at a game where the goal posts are prematurely torn from the field and the ball carriers run in vain. lol"

What? Down to auto-response already? How about the analogy about the guy making assertions that, when questioned, his brain processes come to a screeching halt because he cannot fathom that someone has a differing view, or indeed that there COULD BE another view. Yes, the man who believed anyting outside his own scope HAD to be psychotic.

Okay, maybe that's not exactly an analogy...but what can you do?

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Ron Marquis — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:17:25 GMT

Please do not apologize on my account. I had no idea what frenzy my ignorance would spark. I'm afraid you've taken a seat at a game where the goal posts are prematurely torn from the field and the ball carriers run in vain. lol

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Valject — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:16:48 GMT

"Oh please don't apologize on my my account. I had no idea my ignorance could spark such furvor. lol I'm afraid you've jumped into the game where someone's already pulled down the goal posts and the ball carriers are running in vain> lol"

Creating an analogy doesn't make it relevant. For instance, there could be an analogy to an obsessive, perfectionist artist left in charge of a scoreboard. He spends ours on each number, after every score, but the whole time the game is running he is never able to make a point. See? Totally irrelevant. You know...in my opinion.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Ron Marquis — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:12:14 GMT

Oh please don't apologize on my my account. I had no idea my ignorance could spark such furvor. lol I'm afraid you've jumped into the game where someone's already pulled down the goal posts and the ball carriers are running in vain> lol

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

bbnet — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:11:24 GMT

Ron Marquis wrote:

...The only job a government ever offered me was to demonstrate to a military contractor the firing mechanism I designed for the fully-automatic 12 ga shotgun they took away from me when I was nineteen. It was an offer I couldn't refuse, hence I avoided prosecution.

You could of made them a counter-offer that they couldn't refuse?

Meet my friend Ben Dover, mr. citizen ...

PS - I am the head of my state!

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

liberty student — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:07:29 GMT

A citizen is someone who swears an oath of allegiance in return for a duty of protection. There is no duty to protect, the state has ZERO duty to you or anyone else (sovereign immunity), according to their own legal rulings. This means all of the taxes and loyalty offered to the state in return for "citizenship" is a delusion.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Valject — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:04:44 GMT

It is a very strange notion to pit the idea of democracy against that of the enterprising individual. The problem inherent within is that, when offered democracy, the enterprising individual asks "What's in it for me?" and acts on those incentives. If it is denied that enterprising individuals act on what they perceive to be in their best interest, then what is the point of voting in a democracy? You cannot make the claim that everyone will vote for what is best for society rather than themselves, because there is no way to prove it, one way or another. But even to suggest it implies that the voter will sometimes vote against what they perceive to be important. At that point, voting itself loses all real meaning, because it is no longer the voice of the voting individual.

So much for democracy, then. As to the question of what political boby is necessary to bring about individual freedom, there isn't one. Such freedom only exists once people realize the father-hand of some overseer walking them through life is unnecessary, and if anything deficient. Without the mindset that one is not a child that needs guiding, there simply is no free society.

My apologies. We can return to our regularly scheduled game of "assertion frisbee" now.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

Ron Marquis — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 06:58:40 GMT

A legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized. An inhabitant of a particular town or city.

A person owing loyalty to and entitled by birth or naturalization to the protection of a state or nation.

If the citizen described above cannot exist..please demonstrate making him go away.

Re: Can Democracy Exist Without Capitalism

liberty student — Wed, 20 Apr 2011 06:45:00 GMT

Can you give a concise definition Ron?