Economics Questions

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

John James — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 20:31:06 GMT

Consumariat:
The world is moving onwards and upwards.

Onwards I could see. Upwards is obviously debatable.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Consumariat — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 12:01:05 GMT

The issue could be resolved by having a sub-forum for 'advanced' theory, and a separate one for everything else. Of course, this forum will probably just dissapear one day through lack of up-keep, so its a moot point.

The world is moving onwards and upwards. I might have to investigate the new Mises.org community - not that I like change for no reason, which this seems to be.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Bert — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 06:11:56 GMT

Because I am sure you have read all of the thousand and thousand of pages of Rothbard's work? (I know I have not).

It is simply uninteresting to you now?

To be honest, yes, that sounds very uninteresting. I could not only focus my entire time of study to one or two authors.

Are we allowed to bring up mainstream economics for discussion here?

Go for it.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Michelangelo — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 04:58:47 GMT

As long as we're on the subject of technical economics. Are we allowed to bring up mainstream economics for discussion here? Practicing how to draw indifference curves for example is something I try to do on a regular basis to keep my econometrics polished, but I'm fearful of posting any of them on the site and being called a heretic.

Hmm. I also believe the American Economic Association has forums to discuss technical economics in, but you have to pay a membership fee for entrance. There is a student discount I believe, but it's still a pricy due. If you really feel the need for more feedback it is always an option. I would try to tackle technical questions myself, but I feel I need to master mainstream and austrian principles more before I can properly communicate in higher level topics.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

RothbardsDisciple — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 03:42:51 GMT

Bert:
It would be nice to come on here and see something I haven't read before, or a post that doesn't cite Rothbard or Mises.

Because I am sure you have read all of the thousand and thousand of pages of Rothbard's work? (I know I have not).

It is simply uninteresting to you now?

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Bert — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 03:36:12 GMT

You must not have been here in a while, because I've been coming regularly since January and I haven't seen more than one of each of those threads. (And the nuclear one was really about a current event, and the abortion one was an older one that got bumped). And I have no idea who "E. R. Olovetto" is.

My attendance started to drop around Jan. out of boredom. I'd drop in once in a while, that's about it. Olovetto was a user before me (and way before you) who seemed to have gotten sick of too much b/s, essentially, and eventually was banned.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Nielsio — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 02:15:55 GMT

I started this => http://www.reddit.com/r/austrian_economics/ <= a month ago and it's growing fast.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

John James — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 02:05:25 GMT

Bert:
I remember there was a period where you'd have an abortion and nuclear weapons thread posted at least once a week, it's like the people posting didn't even bother to see if it's already been discussed, and oddly it seems all the abortion threads were made by pro-lifers. When the board culture gets to that point I can understand why users like E. R. Olovetto would get such a "short fuse" of sorts.

You must not have been here in a while, because I've been coming regularly since January and I haven't seen more than one of each of those threads. (And the nuclear one was really about a current event, and the abortion one was an older one that got bumped). And I have no idea who "E. R. Olovetto" is.

If people feel alienated, well, lesson learned.

I could say the same thing to you, cowboy.

The search function is not the best, but if this was a different forum it would be nice to...

And if I were a woman it would be nice if I looked like Jessica Alba.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Aristippus — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 01:36:00 GMT

I agree with JJ in that I read your threads and found them interesting, but I didn't really have much to comment on - what were you after? Perhaps you should write your threads up as articles and submit them to Mises Daily - it would get the attention of people who don't use the forums as well as that of the professional Austrian economists.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Bert — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:28:36 GMT

I can agree with the notion that many things have been discussed here multiple times, but I didn't see you responding in abskebabs threads. And they sound exactly like what you're looking for.

Well, I haven't been on here in a while. Come back last night posting a question (of which I get no answer to), and at first glance it looks the same.

For one thing, a strict policy like that is not very inviting or welcoming to new members.

It's also a turn off for people who've read all the basics and don't want to see the same threads over and over. It's like this forum is stuck in 101 classes. Or must we have a Mises Forum 2.0 for those who have "graduated" from this forum? Not trying to come off in a negative way, but it just gets tiresome and boring. I remember there was a period where you'd have an abortion and nuclear weapons thread posted at least once a week, it's like the people posting didn't even bother to see if it's already been discussed, and oddly it seems all the abortion threads were made by pro-lifers. When the board culture gets to that point I can understand why users like E. R. Olovetto would get such a "short fuse" of sorts. If people feel alienated, well, lesson learned. Direct them to Mises Daily articles on the same topics, etc.

The search function is not the best, but if this was a different forum it would be nice to split it up in sections in regards to philsophy, economics (theory and current news), political theory, and sub-sections for the all returning questions like "How would we privatize the roads?" or "Would someone own nuclear weapons under private law?".

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

John James — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 23:05:15 GMT

I can agree with the notion that many things have been discussed here multiple times, but I didn't see you responding in abskebabs threads. And they sound exactly like what you're looking for.

Bert:
From being on other forums that enforce a strict code of "search more, post less" seems to keep discussion new and interesting. Whatever newbie that post a question or topic that's been discussed many times over get a stern response of "the search function is your friend." Would be nice if that sort of board culture was implemented here.

For one thing, a strict policy like that is not very inviting or welcoming to new members. Ultimately we're trying to get people to join our team...not structure the greatest forum on the Internet. New people can easily be alienated by a "hey newb, use the search function and leave the rest of us alone." And second, have you even tried the search function? It's quite possibly the worst I've ever seen. Personally I do not hold it against anyone (especially a newbie) for not finding a sufficient answer to their question using that piece of crap. Maybe that kind of policy works in a forum that uses a decent platform, but nTelligent's search function is not anyone's friend.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

Bert — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 22:48:25 GMT

To be honest I sort of feel like this forum has gone down hill (or that it's actually at the bottom of the hill now), and it's due to the lack of scholarly work in more obscure areas of study, while new members will blindly ask the same questions over and over and discuss what seems to be more current event/political matters than theory or philosophy. To any new member: search more, post less. Whatever basic question or thought you have regarding obvious stuff like nuclear weapons, IP, private ownership of [insert whatever here], and abortion has been answered time and time again. This forum can get boring quick when all you do is repeat the same thing over and over.

It would be nice to come on here and see something I haven't read before, or a post that doesn't cite Rothbard or Mises. I guess it's too much to ask for a high level of discussion or debate.

For example, right now I'm reading Hegel, and I'm getting a lot out of it. After I read this, I'm going to read Marx's critique of Hegel's idea of the state. Chances are, there's probably only 1% of active users on this forum that have read either one. It would be nice to discuss those things, but it probably won't happen on here.

From being on other forums that enforce a strict code of "search more, post less" seems to keep discussion new and interesting. Whatever newbie that post a question or topic that's been discussed many times over get a stern response of "the search function is your friend." Would be nice if that sort of board culture was implemented here.

Re: Where can I discuss economics now?!

John James — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 22:30:54 GMT

Well, you must realize your recent threads are pretty technical, and the OP is decently long and involved. It's nothing against you or economics discussion, but most people just don't have the time or the interest to get involved in discussions like that. (Or at least not exactly right when you want them to).

Personally I never looked in those threads because whenever I saw them, that's just not what I felt like discussing or getting into at the time. In addition, you have to remember a lot of folks on here are in some respects "newbs" who haven't really gotten as far as Bohm Bawerk and Menger. It's tough for them to have something to add in something like that. And that kind of time commitment of reading such a long OP, on such a technical aspect, just to determine if they even are able to contribute is a bit of a gamble. Many people just aren't inclined to invest that kind of time and effort when they may not even end up being to act on it afterward.

And what's more, even through all that content in those posts, there doesn't seem to be a clear call to action. Even when one reads through one of your entire OPs, it's still not completely clear what kind of response is being asked for. Whether you have a specific point you'd like to discuss, or a question on something one of the authors said, or if you're just interested in hearing what other people think about the passage you read, it's not very easy to tell. It seems as though it's the latter, but ultimately, overall, it just seems like you wanted to get your thoughts down in writing and put them out there. For example, in your Menger thread from yesterday. You've got an 800 word OP there, and by the end of it, all do is give your personal assessment of everything you've just presented, and then say "and here's another guy who had a paper on it. I think readers here might enjoy it."

What do you want from us? Again, it seems like you're more just getting your own thoughts down and putting them out there, which, there's nothing wrong with it, but you can't just expect everyone to be in the mood to read everything you've written there, read (or re-read) the passage you just happened to feel like talking about (because odds are they didn't just get done reading it themselves), and then just discuss their random thoughts on it.

That's a pretty big time commitment and people don't always have the time for it, or the interest in it.

Obviously this isn't telling you want to do or where to go, I'm just offering an outsider's opinion on the reasoning for the lack of responses. It may help you improve on posts. My specific suggestion would be to severly shorten your posts and get to a specific point. Ask a specific question or make a specific request. Outside of a post containing a controversial headline or a shocking video, people need to have an objective in responding. If you're looking for feedback and discussion, you need to give them that. If you don't have one for them, then just put your stuff out there for people to read. But don't get huffy when you don't get a lot of responses.

Again, you're writing on a very technical area, and you're writing a lot. Most people come to these forums for information and to be entertained. No offense to you or the old greats, but a lot of the time, discussing the technical aspects of their technical writings (in a textual medium, no less) is not entirely fun. It's one thing to have a classroom discussion where everyone has been assigned the text and knows what everyone else is talking about...It's one thing to have a lunchroom debate about a concept in general and a bunch of back and forth....but it's another to have a thousand-word opening post about some of the more technical works of economics in a thread in an Internet forum, even if it is the Mises forum.

Where can I discuss economics now?!

abskebabs — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:50:42 GMT

Not that I expressly intend to make this a new thread trashing the new forum/community, I'm sure many have invested great effort in it inspite of its unfortunate results, but I no longer know where I can discuss economics related questions gearing to the Austrian perspective. This forum certainly used to be an outlet, though given the lack of responses I've had to recent threads, I guess it's pretty much dead now too.

I wanted to repost these threads in the new forums. but honestly have no clue where I could place them and be half likely to get a response. Interestingly, for forums of the Mises Institute, there is no economics section! My questions do not relate to monetary theory, but to price theory. Should I just call it quits on this whole endeavour?