Economics Questions

Re: I don't understand China

supermario — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 19:10:25 GMT

It is because almost everything is manufactured in China. If you go to an electrical or electronics store, it is almost impossible to buy any product which wasn't "made in china". Most companies in developed countries are building factories in China to take advantage of cheap labor and to gain a competetive advantage / stay in the game.

As a result, china has the highest exports of goods and services in the world and this will fuel all other sectors such as real estate, services... etc

Re: I don't understand China

John James — Tue, 04 Sep 2012 01:08:16 GMT

Fephisto:
$3 trillion over the last 3 years. I used to think that all the ghost cities meant the growth must be fake, but given that the U.S. could only get away with ~$1 trillion bubble, but do you think the Chinese bubble can be _that_ big?

I actually haven't looked that closely at China's figures myself, but you might check out some of those articles I added to the post above.

Re: I don't understand China

Fephisto — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 22:32:28 GMT

I really doubt that China really does have that much economic freedom. Again, I don't know for sure, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue

There's a large amount of revenue tied up in government-owned enterprises, and I think that the business/investment/financial/labor freedom measures given by the economic freedom index can't be _all_ off.

As for a large labor pool, doesn't India have one of those?

JJ:

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:CHN&dl=en&hl=en&q=gross+domestic+product,+china

$3 trillion over the last 3 years. I used to think that all the ghost cities meant the growth must be fake, but given that the U.S. could only get away with ~$1 trillion bubble, but do you think the Chinese bubble can be _that_ big?

Re: I don't understand China

RagnarD — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 07:03:10 GMT

Disclaimer: I know very little of China this is based on very little information, most of which I've read in the last hour.

Much of the book I was speaking of above was about China trying to implement property rights without calling it private property issueing leases for time periods that just get reissued in perpetuity. According to wikipedia China's tax rate works out to 17% of GDP vs US at 26% (2008 figures), (plus we have SS medicare etc, I have no idea what all was left out of that figure). China's highest minimum wage is $202 per month (also wikipedia). They have a huge poor population a surplus of labor keeps wages low, so a good portion of the population may be getting paid the minimums.

I'm sure there are negative factors that I'm unfamiliar with, but these are huge advantages.

Re: I don't understand China

RagnarD — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 05:09:56 GMT

I've scanned most of the book and haven't found what I was referring to but this passage about the move from collective to household responsibility in agriculture is similar.

From "Economic Reform in China:Problems and Prospects pg 158:

"Under the arrangement of the household responsibility system land is contracted to individual households for a period of 15 years. After fulfilling the procurement quota obligations, farmers are entitled to sell the surplus on the markets or retain it for their own uses.".....

"It is estimated that total factor productivity increased 15% as a result of the improvement in the incentive structure caused by changing from the production team system to the household responsibility system."

Re: I don't understand China

Quest — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 02:53:44 GMT

Thought it was constant subsidation on select industries by Chinese technocrats.
Where could I find actual sales and growth numbers for Chinese industries? Such as housing or manufacturing and government numbers like health care and military?

Re: I don't understand China

Malachi — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 01:40:05 GMT

Was this fee for transactions, or operation and existence per annum, or what? I havent found anything btw

Re: I don't understand China

RagnarD — Mon, 03 Sep 2012 01:28:55 GMT

Years ago I read a book called "Economic Reform in China"--I remember it talking about some businesses being charged a flat fee tax, not a flat percent. A quick google search only yielded links about flat percentage taxes. Anyone know if this has become widespread in China?

Re: I don't understand China

John James — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 22:42:14 GMT

Malachi:
Obviously with an infallible memory I felt no need to watch your fallacious clip, nor do I feel compelled to "prove" something I ALREADY KNOW to be true. You can delude yourself into thinking the united states is "more free and stuff" than COMMUNIST CHINA if you like.

mmm.

Touché.

Re: I don't understand China

Malachi — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 22:33:26 GMT

Obviously with an infallible memory I felt no need to watch your fallacious clip, nor do I feel compelled to "prove" something I ALREADY KNOW to be true. You can delude yourself into thinking the united states is "more free and stuff" than COMMUNIST CHINA if you like.

Re: I don't understand China

John James — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:59:27 GMT

Malachi:
Bullshit. My memory is infallible.

Show me the clip then, Colonel Hathi. I showed you mine.

Re: I don't understand China

Malachi — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:39:30 GMT

Bullshit. My memory is infallible.

Re: I don't understand China

John James — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 21:03:37 GMT

Malachi:
We could start by defining "growth" and figuring out how "economic freedom" is measured.

Careful. We don't do definitions around here.

Stossel found it easier to open a business in frickin commie china than here in the united states.

Actually it was Hong Kong. Not really the same thing.

As for the OP, I would say it really does depend on how you define and measure "growth" (despite how useless and unnecessary some might argue defining your terms is.)

See the links here and here for a good idea of where it's coming from though.

:EDIT:

Forgot about these:

The China Model Is Unsustainable

China and the Development Myth

Bust Looms As China Booms

What Threat, China?

Can Bubbles Also Be Made in China?

Can China Transform its Mode of Growth?

A Bull in China

China's Unsustainable Boom?

Re: I don't understand China

EmbraceLiberty — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:32:52 GMT

Peter Schiff, someone who invests heavily in China, said China is in a lot of ways more free market than America.

Re: I don't understand China

Malachi — Sun, 02 Sep 2012 19:25:00 GMT

We could start by defining "growth" and figuring out how "economic freedom" is measured. Stossel found it easier to open a business in frickin commie china than here in the united states. What is "grow[ing]?" the amount of people making money providing goods and services, i.e. Wealth? Or the nominal value of certain transactions?