Economics Questions

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Clayton — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:23:57 GMT

@eliotn: The short answer: child support and alimony are a form of "privatized welfare", that is, it is a system of redistribution that operates outside of the ordinary taxation mechanism. The government benefits from enabling ex-wives to leech off their husbands in the same way the Fed benefits from private investors purchasing government bonds. "The more, the merrier", that is, private actors imitating State aggression provide moral cover for the State's aggression.

Clayton -

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

eliotn — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 21:17:55 GMT

What I want to know is why marriage laws are ****ed, why marriage is such a complex legal issue and possible improvements to marriage law (even if it would only help a fraction/only a fraction would want it).

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Clayton — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 17:44:11 GMT

@MM: Sounds good on paper. Much more complicated in practice.

Clayton -

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

MadMiser — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:18:07 GMT

Work out exactly what both of you want from the marriage, write a contract, sign it in some manner that gives it legal validity (include all the clauses, breaches, consideration, remedies etc. that any other valid contract would have). Treat it like a business contract: you wouldn't get into a business contract of indefinite length without serious discussion, negotiation and planning beforehand, so why walk blindly into a marriage, which could arguably be far more harmful to your wealth and sanity than any business relationship?

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Papirius — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:17:11 GMT

I had a thought that marriage could (/should) be (seen as) something like a workers' cooperative and housing cooperative in one.

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Clayton — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:25:46 GMT

Why can't people just simply end the marriage, and not have to pool assets and stuff?

One word: children.

The problem is that keeping assets separate doesn't solve much of anything once you have children. The root problem is that children have 50% of their genes from their father and 50% from their mother. People who don't have children may have a harder time understanding why this is such a big deal. It is. There's something buried deep inside your brain that makes you literally insane when thinking about your children. The mere thought of harm or privation coming to your children is simply unbearable. Yet the mother (and the mother's family) and the father (and the father's family) have nearly equal claim to the rights and duties of parenting. The law actually assigns a precedence to the mother's claim and this is one of the few things that our f---d up family law still has almost right but then they bury it under so much other BS that it doesn't matter.

But I think there is a lot of room for "innovation", so to speak, in this area... innovation that cannot occur because the State's law monopoly is literally stuck in the stone age. The Establishment likes things just as they are... 50% of the population at the throats of the other 50% is the ideal scenario for corrupt imperial rulers ... divide and conquer. In my view, there is a deep connection between the abysmal state of affairs in family law and the unprecedented power of the modern State.

Clayton -

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

eliotn — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:13:58 GMT

@rosstaylor: Marriage law (really, divorce law) is in awful disrepair in the western world. It is a highly anti-libertarian institution. It is not clear to me that direct application of libertarian principles is the right way to go about fixing it, either. It is a mistake to think that marriage is merely an individual choice - for all but the poorest in society, it is not (family assets are involved and, therefore, family has a say). It is not just divorce law but really the whole of family law that is royally f---d up.

Clayton -"

Anywhere I can find the details on this. I did some research, and it is already looking stupid. Why can't people just simply end the marriage, and not have to pool assets and stuff?

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

rosstaylor — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:19:08 GMT

@Aristippus : Thank you - I will go on and check out Mr. Brown's work.

@Clayton: it's been awhile since I heard of you - I hope you are keeping up the good work here.

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Aristippus — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 23:27:43 GMT

There's a chapter on marriage in Harry Browne's How I Found Freedon in an Unfree World. I think it's still online somewhere.

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Clayton — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:28:54 GMT

Clayton -

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Fephisto — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:22:47 GMT

I'm sorry to joke around, but I have to poke fun at this:

"Can I please have a consensus?"

AAAAHAHAHAHA! ASKING A CONSENSUS FROM LIBERTARIANS! Oh, man, that's gold.

You ever try to herd cats before?

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

gotlucky — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:20:30 GMT

I see that Clayton is working on a post to this thread. This oughta be good.

Re: Libertarian and Marriage

Bert — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:25:04 GMT

How do libertarians drink coffee and mow their lawn? I don't think there's any seperate way "libertarians" do things from "other people" and so on, so it's an odd consensus, but...

I don't plan on getting "married." I'll just be in a relationship, and maybe when I get bored enough we'll throw in some ritual and ceremony and then some legal documents.

Libertarian and Marriage

rosstaylor — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:18:10 GMT

How do libertarians handle financial matters in a marriage? Do you keep separate accounts, sign pre-nups, or have any other type of mutual agreements? In terms of financial privacy, how do libertarians handle that issue in a marriage? Can I please have a consensus?