Economics Questions

Re: Money As Debt

liberation — Fri, 19 Oct 2012 01:15:03 GMT

Actually Paul Grignon advocates this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyWfUqEyIZc

But it's just seems too complicated to me.

Pre-requisite:

https://mises.org/community/forums/p/32043/497878.aspx#497878

Re: Money As Debt

liberation — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:53:04 GMT

Thanks, I'll look into Victoria Grant later!

Re: Money As Debt

Rodolphe Topffer — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 02:25:48 GMT

I read Edward Griffin's response to Paul Grignon. But in fact you could reject his claim in just a few words (see my above comment).

By the way, you should have a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wkv9ZYfk7fs

Victoria Grant, a 12-years old canadian girl speaks about the money-debt. Of course, she's wrong. Anyway I have the feeling that what she has said is someone else's words.

Interview with Victoria Grant. Funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1IgiNnOZV4&feature=related

Re: Money As Debt

liberation — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:52:24 GMT

I haven't read his whole book, just listened to the shortened YouTube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_VqX6J93k) but it was a year ago. He made some good point but it wasn't goundbreaking. OK, he talks about the FED, but the world works as a net of interconnected independent nation states. Who talks about that?

By the way isn't he a conspiracy theorist? Just looking through the topics of his web site (http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/). Anyways, I plan to listen to his Jekyll Island work again, will report back! And he has another quite popular work: World Without Cancer: The Story of Vitamin B17.

> Check my blog, if you're a loser

Strangest byline, ever! :D

Re: Money As Debt

meambobbo — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:00:12 GMT

i don't think he holds a degree in economics, but he's a smart guy, and the Mises Institute economists occasionally drop his name...in a good way. His major work - the creature from Jekyll Island is a great look at the Federal Reserve and our monetary system. I've read the link you posted before, and don't remember seeing anything that made me say that he's wrong about anything.

Re: Money As Debt

liberation — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:31:04 GMT

By the way does this G. Edward Griffin guy has an economic qualification? According to Wikipedia he may have not.

Re: Money As Debt

liberation — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:56:03 GMT

Here's a good critique of the film Money as Debt by G. Edward Griffin so the OP can have an easy answer:

http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=money_as_debt

Do you agree with his analysis?

Re: Money As Debt

Fool on the Hill — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 00:39:53 GMT

FWIW, there's actually a third video in the series where the author changes his policy prescription somewhat and recommends a system where individuals issue their own credit.

Re: Money As Debt

John James — Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:40:32 GMT

Yeah North actually has a whole series on popular Greenbacker Ellen Brown. Tom Woods called it the most stunning demolition of anyone he's ever seen. Of course he offers his own response to greenbackers here. Here's more:

Another Neo-Greenbacker Central Banking Scheme

I Get Letters, Part 552

Picking a Fight With a 12 Year-Old Greenbacker

Re: Money As Debt

Anarcho-libertarian — Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:53:40 GMT

John James:
G. Edward Griffin offers a great critique of this and another film: Analysis of the documentaries Money Masters and Capital Crimes

That's a great article. I'm saving a few golden quotes from it for later use. Here is another awesome article by Gary North that I send to Greenbackers.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/8574.cfm

North makes some statements that creep me out about who or what is behind the whole Greenback movement like:

Next, there is a PowerPoint presentation. It was produced by something called the Council on Spiritual, Psychological, Economic Renewal. I could find no books sold on its site, or anything that showed who they are or what they are promoting. There is no indication who the narrator is. He sounds young. The video is here:

Re: Money As Debt

Rodolphe Topffer — Tue, 05 Apr 2011 01:06:42 GMT

Bankers spend the interest earned. So you must be able to repay capital + interest : no more debt. Stupid video. Money as debt is very, very, very popular in France. Stupid french people...

Re: Money As Debt

No2statism — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:33:52 GMT

If the Fed is ever abolished, I'm sure it will be replaced by US Treasury greenbacks, because there are too many stupid people out there. Ellen Brown and her White nationalist followers come to mind.

Re: Money As Debt

Clayton — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:15:57 GMT

@John James:

Disinformation is as effective as outright censorship. I don't think the Venus Project and related amateur crackpottery have arisen by mere accident.

Clayton -

Re: Money As Debt

John James — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:12:16 GMT

This is a big bump, but someone recommended Money as Debt in the comments of Jeff Tucker's review of Inside Job and this was the only thread I found on it. Kinda surprising there wasn't more discussion, but I figured I'd throw in my piece.

Unfortunately Money as Debt and its sequel are almost as misguided as the film in Tucker's critique. And the sad part is just as with Inside Job they are a missed opportunity. There’s a decent amount of accurate info about central banking and our current system, albeit with a few flaws, (such as notion of the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. G. Edward Griffin covered this in The Creature from Jekyll Island pp. 191-192.)

But worse than that, the conclusions the filmmaker reaches and his proposed solutions are no better than what he spends the entire film berating. He literally suggests that to fight inflation “the government could simply collect tax monies that it then takes out of use.” And then conversely “to control deflation” he suggests “the government would simply spend more money into existence.”

So, basically he is saying we should just eliminate the Fed and directly let the government print money out of nothing.

His whole issue is with the notion that money is created through debt. He sees nothing wrong with an all powerful central authority controlling the money supply, able to print money at will, backed by nothing.

It's actually strikingly similar to the notion advocated throughout Money Masters, which, is quite literally nothing more than "more of the same." Despite 3 1/2 hours of history of the manipulation of money supply for power and personal gain, the solution offered in that film is no more complex than "allow the politicians to create money out of nothing...not private bankers"...Just as in Money as Debt. It is disturbing that such a notion could be viewed as a solution at all.

G. Edward Griffin offers a great critique of this and another film: Analysis of the documentaries Money Masters and Capital Crimes

And just for reference on the monetary issue:

Gold as Money: FAQ

What Has Government Done to Our Money?,

The Case for a 100 Percent Gold Dollar, & The Case for a Genuine Gold Dollar by Murray Rothbard

The Mystery of Banking by Murray Rothbard

Re: Money As Debt

ecoli — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:20:55 GMT

The 'shaving coins' argument seems silly as well. We'd still be using paper or digital currency, it would just be backed gold or silver. If you want to actually redeem that for actual metal, you'll probably get jailed if you pretend your gold is worth more than it actually is.

I think the fraud problem is much bigger deal in a money system in which a good counterfeiter can affect the value of the currency.