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Re: What freedoms have been lost in the United States?

xahrx — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:02:13 GMT

Capital Pumper:
So far the only lost freedoms I'm familiar with can be summed up in one ladyattis quote, and police brutality/corruption courtesy or Lew Rockwell Blog.

Try to do anything that isn't a property rights violation. As soon as the government gets involved, that's a freedom you've lost.

The list of freedoms we have/lost is endless, which is why the framers didn't try to ennumerate them and why any attempt to do so is futille. An ennumeration of what the government can do and can't do is much easier to come by, which is why they went that route. Freedom's I know i've lost:

The freedom to have the kind of fence I want, because it depends on local zoning as to whether or not I have a pool, whether or not my neighbors like it, what kind of wood/metal it's made of, etc., etc., etc.

The freedom to open a winery, because the limited runs I want to initially engage in don't justify the cost and massive burden of getting bonded by the state to do so and then the paperwork requirements which basically involved documenting and tracking the movement of ever spec of dust through the production floor are to onerous right now, and the required capital outlay for the bonding alone is a stick up the rear end.

Now one wouldn't necessarily think of the freedom to put up a fence of your choosing or to open a winery as lost freedoms. Because we're all different, and the powers the government takes and holds all affect us differently. To even get a start to such a list of lost freedoms you'd have to engage the entirety of the public subject to the government's jurisdiction and ask them to document every time they wish to do something that doesn't harm anyone else or their property, and find the government is standing in the way imposing a cost on them of some kind.

Re: What freedoms have been lost in the United States?

onebornfree — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:39:25 GMT

Capital Pumper:

So far the only lost freedoms I'm familiar with can be summed up in one ladyattis quote, and police brutality/corruption courtesy or Lew Rockwell Blog.

ladyattis:

"So having to have a national ID, to be frisked while boarding a plane (and soon buses), having the 4th Amendment violated by the 'reformed' FISA and USAPATRIOT acts, being called a criminal if I toke, if I hire a wo/man for sex, walk around nude on my front lawn, sell lemonade without a license, and etc is not a restriction on my freedom of choice?"

It seems to me "we" have lost all of the original protections of the Bill of Rights, most notably the rules of evidence in federal [and state/local] criminal trials. Harry Browne gives a good, general summation:

"Our Heritage

The Bill of Rights sets forth some of your protections and some of the rules of evidence:

You are to be safe from "unreasonable searches and seizures," so that officious government employees can't go rummaging through your home, your bank account, your personal life.

You can't be tried twice for the same crime, so that vindictive government employees can't keep persecuting you after you've been acquitted.

You can't "be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against" yourself, so you don't have to speak to a policeman or prosecutor who might be eager to use your words out of context, to twist them, or to browbeat you into confessing to something you didn't do.

You can't "be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," so that no government official can set himself up as judge, jury, and executioner over your life.

You "shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial," so that you can't be held in prison indefinitely without getting your day in court.

You're entitled "to be confronted with the witnesses against" you, so that the witnesses' misimpressions or prejudices can be exposed — and so that no one's statement can be used without finding out whether he really said it and exactly what he meant by it.

You shall "have the Assistance of Counsel for [your] defense," so that you have the help of someone capable of dealing with law-enforcement people on an equal basis.

There's much more, of course, but you get the point.

These protections were unique in the history of the world. No other country had written them into the basic law of the land.

Forsaking our Heritage

And every one of them has been discarded all too frequently.

Today, thousands of government officials rummage through your life, looking for evidence with which to hang you. Overlapping federal and state laws allow you to be tried twice for the same crime — and then again in civil court.

Federal agencies act as judge, jury, and executioner — exercising life or death powers over American companies. And the government is holding hundreds of prisoners at Guantánamo Naval Base with no counsel or trial.

There are conscientious policemen and prosecutors who care about finding the truth. But how do we distinguish them from the law-enforcement officials who are eager to pad their arrest and conviction records?

We have no way of doing so. That's why Americans once guarded the Bill of Rights and the rules of evidence so zealously.

But 150 years of government schools and politicians dedicated to increasing their own power have made Americans ignorant of their heritage and protections.

And they are left to rely on TV hosts and journalists who are just as ignorant as they are."

Quote Source See also: "Your Innocence is No Protection"

What freedoms have been lost in the United States?

Capital Pumper — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:03:32 GMT

So far the only lost freedoms I'm familiar with can be summed up in one ladyattis quote, and police brutality/corruption courtesy or Lew Rockwell Blog.

ladyattis:

"So having to have a national ID, to be frisked while boarding a plane (and soon buses), having the 4th Amendment violated by the 'reformed' FISA and USAPATRIOT acts, being called a criminal if I toke, if I hire a wo/man for sex, walk around nude on my front lawn, sell lemonade without a license, and etc is not a restriction on my freedom of choice?"