History

Re: Another man-made famine

Marko — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 22:08:56 GMT

Accounts of Bengal before the British arrive describe it as a land of plenty. Famine was probably not totally unknown since there existed a state sponsored system of famine relief, which wouldn't make sense for there to be without an ocasional crisis. However there was nothing on the scale of horrendous Victorian famines. In fact the first famine in Bengal after the subjugation took people by surprise as they wondered how there could be starvation in a place renowned for its riches. But by mid 19th century starvation in India no longer aroused any shock.

India actually continued to grow a surplus of food through most of the colonial era, however, so much of that food was being exported that despite that there was chronic malnutrition. That is to say not just the surplus, even some non-surplus food was being sold on the world market, because at the time it was the only way to meet the "Home Charge", seeing that there was little manufacturing the British having obstructed its rise (prohibition on import of machinery early on, and high tariffs later on).

However shortly before the war, a decade or two at most, India no longer grew a surplus of food and was now an importer of it, albeit it never actually imported enough to meet its total need for food, because it needed to spend the money earned by exports on paying off the British instead.

Hell, let me upload the scans I had for notes that are about some of this specifically:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/04e5a

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/1d86e

http://postimage.org/image/xh7m8r49j/

http://i43.tinypic.com/54bzut.jpg

Re: Another man-made famine

Peter Sidor — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:41:19 GMT

Damn! A rather brutal account.

One quibble:

- "before the British conquest India was a rich land"

stands somewhat against

- "a colony where malnutrition was chronic" and

- "in the years just before the war India had been a net importer of food"

...could it be that India had its share of poverty and famines before the British arrived? Wouldn't excuse them one bit, but it needs to be said.

Re: Another man-made famine

Marko — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 19:31:32 GMT

So for a while I wanted to look further into this and now I finally have.

Re: Another man-made famine

Peter Sidor — Thu, 27 May 2010 08:40:38 GMT

"Wikipedia is garbage, any body can get on and "edit". And there is going to be someone who has the artical on their watch list, so if you fix it, you'll just end up in an edit war. That will end with an arbitrarily decision by an admin."

As said, get your facts straight, write them up, be nice, hope for the best. It is still possible to put in dissenting views, one needs persistence and on occasion luck. The world's largest encyclopedia is not all garbage.

Re: Another man-made famine

James — Thu, 27 May 2010 00:00:01 GMT

"Wikipedia has a vangaurd, dissention is not allowed."

I agree.

Wikipedia is garbage, any body can get on and "edit". And there is going to be someone who has the artical on their watch list, so if you fix it, you'll just end up in an edit war. That will end with an arbitrarily decision by an admin.

Re: Another man-made famine

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Mon, 10 May 2010 19:44:45 GMT

The very idea of one source to rule them all is stupid. Wikipedia is the idiot's source.

Wikipedia is useful as a bibliography, and as a general encyclopedia. Nobody would suggest using a printed encyclopedia as your only source, either. But, Wikipedia is superior to your standard printed encyclopedia precisely because of the number of sources which are generally used for articles (and, a person should be able to distinguish between quality articles worth reading and poor articles that need improvement).

Re: Another man-made famine

ThreeTrees — Mon, 10 May 2010 19:31:10 GMT

I'd say it is pretty casual. Statist ideals are fully integrated in the cognitive discourse of your average person and they're not even aware of it. Hegel's infected everybody's minds.

Re: Another man-made famine

Caley McKibbin — Mon, 10 May 2010 18:56:30 GMT

Wikipedia's content is decided through arbitration, so it's tyranny by majority. But, one would be hardpressed to find a more efficient method of operation.

The very idea of one source to rule them all is stupid. Wikipedia is the idiot's source.

Re: Another man-made famine

Peter Sidor — Mon, 10 May 2010 18:17:04 GMT

I consider the Wikipedia an extremely useful tool. Besides being a great source of information, it also teaches the important lessons "nothing is perfect" and "there ain't no such thing as unbiased information". The climate change was/is one of the biggest frauds around, and much of the battle was conducted on the Internet. So there.

Get your facts (and opinions) straight, write them up, be nice, hope for the best. Anyway, there's more websites around than Wikipedia.

Re: Another man-made famine

Jonathan M. F. Catalán — Mon, 10 May 2010 18:11:22 GMT

Wikipedia's content is decided through arbitration, so it's tyranny by majority. But, one would be hardpressed to find a more efficient method of operation.

Re: Another man-made famine

twistedbydsign99 — Mon, 10 May 2010 18:10:24 GMT

hugolp:

You should edit wikipedia then. Wikipedia is being used to spread statist ideas. It is not casual that all articles go in that direction.

Wikipedia has a vangaurd, dissention is not allowed.

Re: Another man-made famine

LeeO — Mon, 10 May 2010 17:56:14 GMT

Wikipedia has basically turned into a propaganda tool to promote statist agendas. Here's another example: History of climate gets 'erased' online. I wonder who's really in charge at Wikipedia? The idea that "the people" determine the content seems like the myth that "the people" are the government in a democracy.

Re: Another man-made famine

Peter Sidor — Mon, 10 May 2010 17:35:34 GMT

Actually, what it seems to be saying, is, that the free market approach worked there, and was very successful; but failed during the next famine, hence free market evil. But depending on reading it could be a failure of the government relief effort:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1876%E2%80%9378#Famine_and_relief

Nobody says the free market can magically solve every single problem in the world, especially if one looks on purely commercial activities - but there is plenty of space for charity as well. Seeing a large-scale government relief effort, one is tempted to theorize if it wasn't at fault, and if it didn't crowd out more efficient helpers...

...but the sources seem to be missing. Anybody knows more about this one?

Re: Another man-made famine

Hard Rain — Mon, 10 May 2010 16:30:57 GMT

I'm confused, the Wiki article on "Famine in India" says that the 1874 free market approach was a disaster. Perhaps a more enlightened poster can expand upon this and/or correct the article?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India

Re: Another man-made famine

Peter Sidor — Mon, 10 May 2010 08:55:47 GMT

Excellent! Have expanded the resources to give it more oomph, let's see how it all works out.