History

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Bogdan — Wed, 12 May 2010 13:57:07 GMT

About that 11mln victims is talking Natalia Lebedeva, authoritative historian, who worked with archival documents. You can't find more truthworthy source.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Marko — Wed, 12 May 2010 13:42:03 GMT

Watched yesterday first half of "The Soviet Story" movie: only during 1937-1941 because of political repressions in USSR were killed 11mln people!!!

That's not a trustworthy source.

People just gave you the numbers in this thread.

They turned out to be totally arbitrary and indefinite.

Are you satisfied with the answers, Marko? ;)

Well I knew before that there are a gazillion different numbers being floated around. I think I am going to read the pertinent chapter of the Black Book of Communism, see how they reached their figure.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Prateek Sanjay — Wed, 12 May 2010 10:21:58 GMT

Marko:

That is the reason I am asking. You hear this all the time, but no one ever brings up any numbers.

People just gave you the numbers in this thread.

They turned out to be totally arbitrary and indefinite.

Are you satisfied with the answers, Marko? ;)

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Bogdan — Wed, 12 May 2010 10:08:23 GMT

They was called "penal batalions". But men picked there were not criminals (mostly). For example during the so called "liberation" of Ukraine they picked to the penal batalions the most of men military age in many cities and villages: "you were in occupied territory, it means - traitors. You should be shot, but we'll generously give you the opportunity to atone for blood." So they gave them 2-3 rifles for 25-30 soldiers, other had to gain their weapons during the fight.

Watched yesterday first half of "The Soviet Story" movie: only during 1937-1941 because of political repressions in USSR were killed 11mln people!!!

So, I think, the total number of Stalin's victims was about 30mln people.

Fresh ironic video on this topic: http://bogdan-ua.livejournal.com/8293.html

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Marko — Mon, 10 May 2010 12:53:50 GMT

Have you stopped beating your wife shazam?

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

shazam — Mon, 10 May 2010 04:14:39 GMT

Also, just out of curiosity, what is with your obsession with seeking to prove that the Nazis killed more people than the Soviets? Any sane person would see that both ideologies are wicked, thus what is your point if one totalitarian dictator killed more people than the other?

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Caley McKibbin — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:55:38 GMT

I know that Enemy at the Gates is not the source because my history teacher taught it 11 years ago.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

thelion — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:50:01 GMT

I have not found evidence of weaponless either, so I agree with Marko on this.

In fact, they did have rifles for everybody. Soviet rifles cost much less to produce, because most features were not included. Same thing for heavy weapons. But they did not provide good weapons to penal companies.

The riflelessness comes from a movie, I think, Enemy at the Gates.

But penal battalions were outfitted very poorly by intent. Soviet weapons are not bad, and never were, taking into account the intended cheapness for quantity production. Has anyone watched today's Victory Day parade in the Red Square, for instance.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Marko — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:49:34 GMT

They story is that they didn't have enough rifles for everyone. They had the rear waves in an assault pick up the ones from the dead bodies.

I have another. Once upon a time there lived in a certain village a little country girl, the prettiest creature who was ever seen. Her mother was excessively fond of her; and her grandmother doted on her still more. This good woman had a little red riding hood made for her. It suited the girl so extremely well that everybody called her Little Red Riding Hood.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Marko — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:48:16 GMT

I'm pretty sure that 12 million deaths is the accepted number of people directly killed by the Nazi regime.

Oh really? Accepted by whom?

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Caley McKibbin — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:30:21 GMT

There is no way to exact numbers because nobody was counting these things.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Caley McKibbin — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:24:04 GMT

I know about the penal batallions. I was challenging Bodia to be more specific on his "weaponless" claim, since I know it is a figment of popular western imagination that has nothing to do with history.

They story is that they didn't have enough rifles for everyone. They had the rear waves in an assault pick up the ones from the dead bodies.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

shazam — Mon, 10 May 2010 01:04:42 GMT

I'm pretty sure that 12 million deaths is the accepted number of people directly killed by the Nazi regime. You could inflate the numbers to include all 50 million war casualties, but that would necessitate blaming the entire war on Germany, and ignoring the role of Japan, USSR, etc. Plus, blaming all war deaths on the Nazis would include even those killed by the Allies (e.g. Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.). 20 million seems to be the accepted number of people killed under Stalin. If one wanted to break down this number:

~7 million Ukrainians and Kazakhis killed during the Holodomor.

~1 million dissidents killed during the Great Purge.

~1 million Germans and Muslims killed during the forced deportations during the war.

~2 million Russian POWs killed during Operation Keelhaul (of course the Western Allies deserve a large part of the blame for delivering the victims in the first place)

~2 million Germans killed during the post-war expulsions from Eastern Europe

That right there is 11.5-16.5 million deaths in only the most notable instances of Soviet repression during Stalin's reign. So, even if one gives a low estimate for the death toll of major incidents, and assumes that nobody died in the USSR between 1929-1932, 1933-1935, 1936-1941, or 1946-1953, Stalin's death toll would only be marginally lower than Hitler's.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

Marko — Fri, 07 May 2010 10:41:29 GMT

I know about the penal batallions. I was challenging Bodia to be more specific on his "weaponless" claim, since I know it is a figment of popular western imagination that has nothing to do with history.

Re: How many people did Stalin kill?

thelion — Fri, 07 May 2010 01:33:38 GMT

Vladimir Rezun i.e. Victor Suvorov: Inside the Soviet Army

Read it.

It won't give number's, but you'll get the idea of a forward army of "penal" battalions, followed by the military police, and then the regular army. Very few people surivived the penal battalions, and if they did, something else was found to get rid of most of them.