Political Theory

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Bostwick — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:50:37 GMT

Trianglechoke7:

Yeah, but if a particular offense will never lead to jail, even if it's not an error, then that particular law is not the use of force.

You've confused yourself. If something doesn't lead to force then its not against the law.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Bostwick — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:46:18 GMT

Trianglechoke7:

Does the fact that we do not have a debtors prison mean that not all laws are the use of force?

Debts are a private matter.

State laws banning debtor prisons depend on force.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:52:39 GMT

Couldn't non-payment result in bancrupcy, and aren't there provisions of bancrupcy in which no property will be taken? All you will have is 7 years bad credit?

Wouldn't that be a way in which there is no chance of force being used against you for resistance?

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:25:23 GMT

This isn't what I was told. I was told that no one will ever go to jail for non-payment of a civil suit. Is this BS, or correct?

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

kefka888 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:56:28 GMT

Since when was jail/jail time considered the only use of force?

If a police officer decides to pull me over he does so with force, regardless if I have done anything wrong or broken any laws. If he issues me a ticket, regardless of if I am found guilty of a crime, I am required to pay a "processing fee," which I find to be extortion. Also, just to clarify, you can be put in jail for not paying any fine, including civil.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:08:20 GMT

Byzantine,

What is your profession? Are you a lawyer?

The reason I am asking is because a lawyer told me that the employer will not be able to deduct things from his taxes.

I'm soooooooo sorry that I don't know all the intricacies and avenues that will take place as someone resists non-payment from a civil suit.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:53:06 GMT

its not clear what offence you have in mind?

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:44:59 GMT

Yeah, but if a particular offense will never lead to jail, even if it's not an error, then that particular law is not the use of force.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:33:16 GMT

Trianglechoke7:
If the state ultimately will not put someone in jail, and someone just ends up having bad credit then I don't see this as te use of force.

your right. but the state has given itself the right to 'ultimately put people in jail for transgressing its laws' so why are we assuming that it wont..?. of course, i can imagine incompetent states making administarial errors and forgetting that someone is on the hook for money and breaking a law, and hence that person avoiding force. but what does this prove?

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:25:10 GMT

What about the garnishment of wages?

As I understand it, your employer is requested to withhold earnings and then somehow pay the person you owe. What happens if you're employer refuses to pay?

If the state ultimately will not put someone in jail, and someone just ends up having bad credit then I don't see this as te use of force.

Re: Absence of debtors prison means law does not = use of force

Trianglechoke7 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:54:26 GMT

How did they collect from OJ?