Political Theory

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

liberty student — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:04:54 GMT

BP has never let small things like accuracy in sourcing get in the way of making a point.

Kinsella has recently been smashing the premise of occupancy and use on the Mises blog (and perhaps elsewhere).

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

wilderness — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:46:55 GMT

I didn't say that Brainpolice... wrong quoting.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

Brainpolice — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:40:18 GMT

liberty student:

wilderness:
He said my neighbor can take my land and nobody can stop him. I said I'll stop him. He said I'm not allowed to stop him and that there is no stealing.

Welcome to the reductio of "occupancy and use". No one owns anything, all possession is temporary and transitory.

That's *not* the "occupancy and use" position - it's actually the amoralist Max Stirner position (I.E. "I own what I can take"). It isn't even a reductio of the "occupancy and use" position because such a reductio is predicated on a misunderstanding of the position is - which is *not* that "perpetual use" is required. So no go.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

Esuric — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:07:17 GMT

job86:
Can one ever justify the right of property ownership without any arbitrary reasoning?

You don't need reasoning really; if you come for my house, I'll kill you, or you'll kill me. This kind of situation occurs all the time here in Eastern Europe (usually amongst family members). Legal systems that respect and protect property rights always yield positive results relative to those systems that don't. Again, here in Montenegro there is no rule of law, contracts are practically worthless, and as such, we all carry weapons, many many weapons.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

wilderness — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:56:58 GMT

the individual is property rightly unto him or her own self, thus, property is the person. the human is being in and of themselves as their own individual property... also any labor of the person, and any tangible goods produced by the person are also rightly the property of the individual. Contracts with employers or partners involve exchanges for labor and produced goods for money usually.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:21:39 GMT

p.s. memri.org is great if middle east following is your thing. i dont do it now as much as i used to, but i can still recommend that site.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

malgratloprekindle — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:16:56 GMT

My bad.

Thanks for the correction.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:56:00 GMT

religion			percent
Buddhism			42.5%
No religion			14.8%
Christianity			14.6%
Islam			13.9%
Taoism			8.5%
Hinduism			4%
Others			1.6%

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

malgratloprekindle — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:53:29 GMT

Very interesting nirgrahamUK.

Speaking of economic powers, Singapore is up there (second on the economic freedom scale I showed too), and is Islamic, last time I checked.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

nirgrahamUK — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:43:26 GMT

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/66/2157.htm

i like how the very last spoken sentence is kinda like a punchline for libertarians. do'h!

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

malgratloprekindle — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:35:51 GMT

@LS: Hence why I deleted that post. :P

liberty student:
It wasn't an appeal to ridicule.

Why not?

liberty student:
I'm not going to play the game of catering to your willful ignorance.

Uh huh.

liberty student:
I've given you multiple topics and ideas to research.

"Read the Koran"? How about researching what actually goes on there? :P

liberty student:
If you fail to do so, I am not going to invest my time to do it for you. I have more profitable activities and discussions on my horizon, and you've given me no incentive to believe a reasonable discussion with you can bear fruit in the future.

Whatever you say.

liberty student:
Good luck.

Peace out homedawg.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

liberty student — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:32:03 GMT

malgratloprekindle:
Appeal to ridicule.

It wasn't an appeal to ridicule. I'm not going to play the game of catering to your willful ignorance. I've given you multiple topics and ideas to research. If you fail to do so, I am not going to invest my time to do it for you. I have more profitable activities and discussions on my horizon, and you've given me no incentive to believe a reasonable discussion with you can bear fruit in the future.

Good luck.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

malgratloprekindle — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:19:43 GMT

nirgrahamUK:

the truth is somewhere between LS and malga,
I understand that there is essentially a 'civil war' within Islam, so you will each find (metaphorical) soldiers for one side to be your base of evidence, and it will be easy to talk past each other. careful.

Well, to be fair, you're probably right.

I've heard from Confederal Socialist (odd name for a Market Anarchist, I know) and our LadyAttis on YouTube, that Somalia (large number of Muslims) while it does have some problems with mini states competing, overall, it's a very nice place with Islamic law only handling stuff about divorce and something else I'll have to rewatch LA's video to remember. So, despite my rather mean post before this (Sorry if I was rude to you, LibertyStudent. ^^; ), I do see (after some time) where you're both coming from.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

nirgrahamUK — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:53:41 GMT

the truth is somewhere between LS and malga,

I understand that there is essentially a 'civil war' within Islam, so you will each find (metaphorical) soldiers for one side to be your base of evidence, and it will be easy to talk past each other. careful.

Re: What is the nature of private property in capitalism?

liberty student — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:31:48 GMT

malgratloprekindle:
5 days later and not a single source, or reply.

I was away from the forum.

I don't think you've made your point. I think you have repeated western statist and religious propaganda.

The reason why so many Islamic countries are third world, has a lot more to do with statism and western intervention, than it has to do with some failing of the Islamic notion of economy or property rights justice, and I think you have failed to make that case.

As far as Sharia Law, almost every western city has a mosque, where a non-Muslim can go and ask the Imam questions about Islam. I recommend you do so, and find out why civilized Muslims (most of the world's population) do not stone and behead people, nor do they expect it, as a matter of conflict resolution or breach of social conventions.

Anyway, I am done with this topic. It's up to you to research as honestly as you can to find the truth for yourself. I'm not a Muslim, and I am not going to invest a lot of time into defending it.