Re: The Origin of The State

lordmetroid — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:40:02 GMT

I have been watching the recordings of one of Berkley's history course's lectures it has some nice information. I don't like the current semester's lecture as the professor mixes her viewpoint into the information espoused way too much and is guilty of either double-speak intentionally or being an idiot for not realizing the intellectual dishonesty while she speaks on the topic. However I had use for the information spoken in the video I watched(The Rise of the State in the Age of Machiavelli) by her, she do complement the other professor quite good content wise. I just wish she wasn't all that biased!

Re: The Origin of The State

Inquisitor — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:57:57 GMT

IIRC Chodorov and Nock also have theories on the state's origin. But yes, email them if you want to. Hoppe is usually very accommodating.

The Origin of The State

Eudaemonist — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:50:19 GMT

Hi, I need help; and hopefully someone will be interested enough to reply and aid me.

I'm researching the origin of the state, specifically the de Jouvenel's theory, as presented in 'On Power'. This is the theory Hoppe refers to in 'Natural Elites, Intellectuals, and the State', and Bertrand Lemennicier refers to in his JLS article 'Fallacies in the Theories of the Emergence of the State'. Hoppe explicates it as the state emerging from a natural elite, whilst Lemennicier describes it as the 'criminal state' view of the state; the idea that the state emerges from the transition from roving bandits to stationary bandits - i.e. a monopolization of theft from a situation of common theft. Lemennicier goes on to say that this idea "has been mentioned often in the literature" (including by Mancur Olson, whom he discusses).

Now, there is definitely some overlap here with class theory, inasmuch as the libertarian theory of class is essentially that the state monopolises theft (among other things). But origin theory is about the particular process of monopolization: from pre-state to state. Arguably Lemennicier and Hoppe are talking about two different theories: for Hoppe, the monopolization of extant functions within a society; for Lemennicier, the monopolization of theft in a society from without, and thence the provision of state functions. Lemennicier's interpretation is exogeneous, Hoppe's endogeneous.

So, anyway, my questions are these:

1. Does anyone know of any other published references to de Jouvenel's theory?

2. Is Hoppe alone in his interpretation of de Jouvenel? Has anyone else characterised it as he does?

3. Apart from Mancur Olson, who else talks about the criminal state as a solution to a war of all against all, as Lemennicier says is often the case?

And lastly, do you recon I could just email them? I'm hesitant, but on the other hand, the worst that could happen is that they do not reply. I feel totally lost in this subject. I want to write about de Jouvenel's theory, but it seems as though it disappeared without a trace, apart from Hoppe's use of it.

Political Theory

Re: The Origin of The State

Re: The Origin of The State

The Origin of The State