Political Theory

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

whipitgood — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:28:14 GMT

sicsempertyrannis:
Because he is obsessed with his inflated sense of self-importence. Any second that his mouth isnt moving is a second he could be converting someone to his own vision of 'libertarianism', which includes living a non productive life living off of donations like a welfare receiptant while playing a cyber-Freud to 18 year olds.

Yes, there's no difference between voluntary donations and extorted funds. You might disagree with him, but at least he's doing something. I know it takes a big man to come on the internet and attack someone without provocation, but you can at least back up your talk with a long list of things that you've done to further the cause of liberty, right? Are you doing more than Steph?

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

sicsempertyrannis — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:17:15 GMT

fezwhatley:

Molyneux makes some good points, i think his writings are pretty good and he seems well intentioned.

but why can't he keep his mouth shut for 5 minutes?

Because he is obsessed with his inflated sense of self-importence. Any second that his mouth isnt moving is a second he could be converting someone to his own vision of 'libertarianism', which includes living a non productive life living off of donations like a welfare receiptant while playing a cyber-Freud to 18 year olds.

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

fezwhatley — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:46:57 GMT

Molyneux makes some good points, i think his writings are pretty good and he seems well intentioned.

but why can't he keep his mouth shut for 5 minutes?

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

rockstar107 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:24:32 GMT

Conza88:

Rothbard's Defense of Contractual Limited Liability by Gary North

If your friend is a fan of the Church, then this will probably win him over.

If you think it will hinder, take the excerpts from Man, Economy and State mentioned... or For a New Liberty.

Alternatively, this might help.. but it's more about PDA's (private defence agencies)

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Excellent! I love this too, I think all of these will help make a good case. Now I have 700 pages to read ...

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

rockstar107 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:23:43 GMT

Ha! I know that, and I tried to convey to him the nature of competition would ensure the separation of powers. That the evil corporations we have seen throughout history have all had support from the State. Companies like the East India Companies of the world were are State sponsored monopolies.

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

rockstar107 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:22:06 GMT

This is on the right track! Thank you for your helpful reply.

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

rockstar107 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:21:31 GMT

To a good point, yes. He's not convinced that the corporate takeover that happened would be any better than what we have now.

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

fezwhatley — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:20:14 GMT

and that would be worse than social democracy? i assume he's afraid of coercion and expropriation.

Lets say the government was abolished and Walmart and DuPont took over. by taking over and assuming a role from the power vacuum, what bad things could they do? Tax, regulate (tell others what to do), pryamid schemes (SS, Medicare)? If they become institutions that took money from you and regulated society they would no longer become market participants, but governments. Maybe your friend is afraid that if the government is abolished, new governments would take its place, well then back to square one

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

Bank Run — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:12:26 GMT

Hello:

So; is your friend trying to argue that without socialism there will be fascism? "On the ashes of socialisms sprout fascisms" I think a truly liberal agenda will not be one that replaces one power with another. Without special government privilege, monopolism is untenable. Even a really good entrepreneur, or group of them, would have to be just that, really good and maintain being really good. In a market system the consumer is the real boss. So a an article that I found good on this subject was The Corporation at Issue, Part 1:The Clash With Classical Liberal Values and the Negative Consequences For Capitalist Practice.

What is

rockstar107:
in our vision of Government

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

Stranger — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:01:20 GMT

rockstar107:

The very short of it is, I have a friend who is coming around to Liberty, but is convinced that in our vision of Government, the power vacuum left would encorage corporations to take over. Think Neal Stephenson, etc...

Yes, that's the point.

Re: Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

Conza88 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:54:26 GMT

Rothbard's Defense of Contractual Limited Liability by Gary North

If your friend is a fan of the Church, then this will probably win him over.

If you think it will hinder, take the excerpts from Man, Economy and State mentioned... or For a New Liberty.

Alternatively, this might help.. but it's more about PDA's (private defence agencies)

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Power Vacuum, Corporation run amok!

rockstar107 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:32:57 GMT

The very short of it is, I have a friend who is coming around to Liberty, but is convinced that in our vision of Government, the power vacuum left would encorage corporations to take over. Think Neal Stephenson, etc...

Is there a good Libertarian treaty out there that concisely makes a good case for why this wouldn't happen?

Keep in kind I've given him some great answers on balance of power over the course of about 4 hours of discussion, and he's still not quite there. We're both highly educated, so a section out of Human Action or something would be preferable.