Political Theory

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:41:31 GMT

Daniel:
On a serious note, the utilitarian case is flawed because you cannot make interpersonal comparisons of value. Therefore, that utilitarian defense that was linked to has been refuted.

Well you can't make *clear* interpersonal comparisons of utility. It seems that human beings have an intuitive feel for this task though...

So I might not know if I should give a choco bar to A or B but I know that if I have a choice between giving a choco bar to A and killing B I should probably choose the former. I think I posted this exact example above.

Also you could use the fact that you can't compare interpersonal utility to justify markets, since each individual can only measure their own utility from such and such an action.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

The Late Andrew Ryan — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:36:21 GMT

Snowflake:
The keynes multiplier is however many government programs you can set up in america before the market becomes saturated with toxic investments.

In the rape scenario "government programs" becomes "men", "america" means "fifteen year old girl", and "saturated" means something very graphic.

Lol! I believe this win belongs to you my good sir!

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:10:57 GMT

Snowflake:

Daniel:
In the long run, we're all dead. :P
So integrate happiness over time

On a serious note, the utilitarian case is flawed because you cannot make interpersonal comparisons of value. Therefore, that utilitarian defense that was linked to has been refuted.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:10:37 GMT

Snowflake:

Daniel:
In the long run, we're all dead. :P
So integrate happiness over time

On a serious note, the utilitarian case is flawed because you cannot make interpersonal comparisons of value. Therefore, that utilitarian defense that was linked to has been refuted.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:54:21 GMT

Daniel:
In the long run, we're all dead. :P

So integrate happiness over time

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:25:22 GMT

In the long run, we're all dead. :P

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

I. Ryan — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:03:45 GMT

Daniel:

If the argument that actions must be for the benefit of the greater good is to be accepted as valid, then why not legalize gang rape? After all, dozens of people would benefit at the expense of one, and would be extrapolated as benefiting millions at the expense a few.

I think that you meant to say "If the argument that actions must be for the benefit of the greater good IN THE EXTREMELY SHORT TERM is to be accepted as valid, then why not legalize gang rape? After all, dozens of people would benefit at the expense of one, and would be extrapolated as benefiting millions at the expense a few.". In that case, I concur!

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

NewLiberty — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:34:23 GMT

We may need some stimulus to increase that demand inelasticity in case it is unable to get up on its own.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:04:34 GMT

Snowflake:

The keynes multiplier is however many government programs you can set up in america before the market becomes saturated with toxic investments.

In the rape scenario "government programs" becomes "men", "america" means "fifteen year old girl", and "saturated" means something very graphic.

I'm sure demand would be very inelastic.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:02:18 GMT

The keynes multiplier is however many government programs you can set up in america before the market becomes saturated with toxic investments.

In the rape scenario "government programs" becomes "men", "america" means "fifteen year old girl", and "saturated" means something very graphic.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:50:29 GMT

Snowflake:

Daniel:
Then utilitarians have never engaged in sexual activity. Besides, how exactly would hey sum up the benefits and sufferings?
With felicifitic calculus. haven't you ever read Bentham? sheesh.

Happiness =

Intensity
Duration
Likelihood of more happiness
some other thing I can't remember cus its some unicorn metric

Multiply them all together to get happiness.

Where do I enter Keynes' multiplier?

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:48:24 GMT

Actually, to make a somewhat serious point, if utilitarianism were ever implemented in society of libertarians, it would require that everyone abide by the NAP and such since libertarians claim to value non-aggression more than pleasure or welfare.

In this way, utilitarianism "eats" other values. It just kind of says "the greatest good" without specifying what that is. It doesn't rule out that libertarian law might be the greatest good.

Conversely, if there were a society that didn't value individual rights at all, it seems there would be little point in implementing libertarian law.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:40:13 GMT

Daniel:
Then utilitarians have never engaged in sexual activity. Besides, how exactly would hey sum up the benefits and sufferings?

With felicifitic calculus. haven't you ever read Bentham? sheesh.

Happiness =

Intensity
Duration
Likelihood of more happiness
some other thing I can't remember cus its some unicorn metric

Multiply them all together to get happiness.

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

DanielMuff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:33:09 GMT

Snowflake:

Utilitarians have a response ready.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Human_rights

Then utilitarians have never engaged in sexual activity. Besides, how exactly would hey sum up the benefits and sufferings?

Re: Gang Rape and the Greater Good

Sieben — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:23:57 GMT

Utilitarians have a response ready.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Human_rights