Political Theory

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

BrianAnderson — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 03:03:09 GMT

Haha. I'm not saying that he predicted the financial crisis, or anything for that matter. I'm saying that he prophesized in regards to gold/silver money being copied into fiat money. I don't think he had any specific event in mind when he talked about this. I just think it's interesting how you can look back in history and see people in his time (and even in the Bible) talking about money being inflated and dissipated by debt since we were talking about Gandhi versus libertarian theory in history.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

prashantpawar — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:19:35 GMT

If you think you or someone else can predict thw future, then you're on wrong forum.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

Praetyre — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:09:16 GMT

I'll give a bureaucrat's backside about Nostradamus and his ilk when someone correctly predicts events using his prophecies, rather than retroactively interpreting his words as referring to some past event. Otherwise, it has all the credibility of Wicca and tea leaf reading to me.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

BrianAnderson — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:57:24 GMT

I'm finding out that many, many people from the past sought out libertarian ideas. Even Nostradamus prophesized in a way that told about the 2008 financial crisis, if you believe in that sort of thing. He said:

The copies of gold & silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake
at the discovery that all is exhausted & dissipated by debt.
All scripts and bonds will be wiped out

Interesting.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

prashantpawar — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 00:24:20 GMT

Shazam

Other than not believing in the right to self-defense

Except that Gandhi never said that people have no right to self-defense(through violence). One thing you must understand about Gandhi, a statement like "Gandhi didn't believe in the right to _____", is inherently wrong. Gandhi would never support a positive right, or a right which takes away something from someone using violence, because he clearly sees the violence involved in it. Here is Gandhi on Gun Control(on British taking away arms from Indians):

“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

shazam — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:13:40 GMT

Gandhi certainly believed in the non-agression principle, which is the major part of libertarianism. Other than not believing in the right to self-defense, he is libertarian (and since he would not initiate agression against those who exercise self-defense, that probably doesn't even matter)

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

William — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:53:13 GMT

1) Libertarianism has different meanings, particularly outside the US; double check to see if he meant "libertarian" in the common US usage of the word.

2) My question is, "for libertarians, is anarchy alone the major concept of interest? Will they be ready to sacrifice the principles of Individualism, Natural Rights, Capitalism, Individual sovereignty and Self-Dependence if they somehow establishes Anarchy?

This could obviously vary dramatically from person to person. I for example, care more for what happens to make me content than a fixed political principle.

3) Also did Gandhi give more individual liberty to India than the UK did? If so, he could be "more libertarian" relatively speaking. To me that would be the most important thing to look at when talking about political figures (I won't pretend to know the answer to that question).

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

laminustacitus — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 02:38:32 GMT

The best description of Ghandi is as a Tolstoyean. His political beliefs are best understood in context of The Kingdom of God is Within You, and Leo Tolstoy's political philosophy.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

nirgrahamUK — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:43:25 GMT

Ghandi :
I am inviting those people who consider themselves as owners today to act as trustees, i.e., owners, not in their own right, but owners in the right of those whom they have exploited.

I appreciate his 'invitation' but I'm not getting aboard that boat

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

ama gi — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:28:29 GMT

GarGi-Dixit:

In His own words,

I am inviting those people who consider themselves as owners today to act as trustees, i.e., owners, not in their own right, but owners in the right of those whom they have exploited.
Supposing I have come by a fair amount of wealth—either by way of legacy, or by means of trade and industry—I must know that all that wealth does not belong to me; what belongs to me is the right to an honourable livelihood, no better than that enjoyed by millions of others. The rest of my wealth belongs to the community and must be used for the welfare of the community. --Mahatma Gandhi!

Andrew Carnegie also had similar philanthropic sentiments--and I doubt that anybody on this forum would say that Carnegie was anti-capitalist. Ghandi was simply expressing his opinion: love thy neighbor as thyself, he who has two coats must share with him who has none, we are all in this together, etc. You'll notice that he used himself as an example, saying that is what he would do, and that is what he would "invite" others to do--not that they should be forced to do it. Ghandi, after all, was a pacifist, not somebody who would throw you in jail for tax evasion!

Mohandas K. Ghandi, in my opinion, was perhaps one of the greatest libertarians who ever lived.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

Wanderer — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:43:27 GMT

GarGi-Dixit:

Radical Egalitarianism is a Libertarian Concept.

Collectivism is a Libertarian Concept.

Racism is a Libertarian concept.

Communism and socialism are Libertarian concept.

No, those are anti-individualistic, thus anti-libertarian.

Gandhi can be considered a left-libertarian, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhism

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

prashantpawar — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:24:21 GMT

DD5

Gandhi did not support state's monopoly in law, I am sorry but this is your ignorance about Gandhi, as I said a lot more people(especially with right wing backgaround) hate Gandhi because of Cognitive Dissonance.

Gandhi supported(and by that I mean as much as Hoppe supports Anarchist society and private production of defense), a system of third part arbitration called as 'Panchayat', it does exist in India now but has been completely ruined by the Government interference.

In Panchayat system any dispute(legal or otherwise) was solved in the village by picking up a common arbitrator, the enforcement of punishment was done by ostracization, which was a really strong and effective method.

http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/third-party-arbitration-in-india.html

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

DD5 — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:18:55 GMT

Gandhi was economically illiterate! For that he should be prosecuted and convicted for intellectual negligence.

His "pacifist" philosophy is not compatible with the Libertarian non-aggression principle and so his type of Anarchy should never be confused with Anarcho-Capitalism. Anarcho-Capitalism assumes no pacifism, but simply dismantles the State's monopoly on law and defense and hands them over to the market place.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

Saan2 — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:25:09 GMT

GarGi-Dixit:
My question is, "for libertarians, is anarchy alone the major concept of interest? Will they be ready to sacrifice the principles of Individualism, Natural Rights, Capitalism, Individual sovereignty and Self-Dependence if they somehow establishes Anarchy?

I answer for myself, and that is the answer to your question. I will not initiate violence. If you do, I will forgive you once maybe twice even it becomes my choice at this point. If you keep violating me, you become an enemy, if I can crush you now I will, if I can't I'll work on it.

That wasn't meant personally to you, just meant to show the difference between pacifism and libertarianism with regards to violence.

Re: Was Gandhi a Libertarian?

wilderness — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:11:39 GMT

Justin Laws:

[edit] Just an opinion here, mind you, but... I always thought Ghandi was a bit of a ass.

why?