Political Theory

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

JAlanKatz — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:43:30 GMT

Nitroadict:
Tell me, where did I say anything about defending it from sort of adversary? :|

You didn't. That was the content of the post to which I replied that it doesn't sound particularly libertarian. You responded by saying that preserving one's culture and carrying on traditions does not contradict libertarianism. I guessed that you were making a point about what I said, which would mean you'd want to defend the comment I was responding to.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Nitroadict — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:17:33 GMT

JAlanKatz:

Nitroadict:
Preserving one's culture / ethnicity and/or being concerned with carrying on traditions does not inherently contradict with libertarianism :\

Agreed. But tell me, what is this about protecting and defending? Defending from whom, and how?

Tell me, where did I say anything about defending it from sort of adversary? :|

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

JAlanKatz — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:09:14 GMT

Nitroadict:
Preserving one's culture / ethnicity and/or being concerned with carrying on traditions does not inherently contradict with libertarianism :\

Agreed. But tell me, what is this about protecting and defending? Defending from whom, and how?

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Nitroadict — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:03:24 GMT

JAlanKatz:

krazy kaju:
Conservatism is more of a philosophical movement than an ideological one. My understanding of conservatism is that it consists of protecting and defending the traditions and customs of a particular society. Thus, conservatism can vary from region to region, based on the cultures present in those regions. A Chinese conservative, for example, has completely different ideological beliefs from a German conservative.

Doesn't sound particularly libertarian to me.

Preserving one's culture / ethnicity and/or being concerned with carrying on traditions does not inherently contradict with libertarianism :\

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Justin Laws — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:40:48 GMT

Isaac "Izzy" Marmolejo:

If you think being a conservative is to be pro war, interventionists, or to be big government, you are wrong. This is mostly towards Americans. Conservatives have been looked down upon these last view years. But in reality, most people dont know what a conservative is in America. Lets try to clear some minds about conservatives now.

Pro war isnt conservative thinking. For some reason when people think of all the people that are pro war, they think of republicans. Well, yes, most republicans are pro war, but they have lost there conservative thinking. To be a real conservative, you have to believe in isolationism. Isolationism is when a country does not involve itself with other nations. And if we dont involve ourselves in other peoples' business, then we wouldnt have a reason to send troops overseas.Right?

We have to provide safety for our citizens FIRST before we go off trying to save the whole world. This is why American charities that help foreign countries piss me off. For example, when a charity asks for food to send to Africa. WHAT?! We have starving kids in America that we should be helping. Another thing that makes me furious is when people adopt in foreign countries. We have poor kids in America that need homes too. Are you just going to throw them under the bus because you rather help a kid in a foreign country? I am not being racist, I support charities to help American citizens that are Asian, Hispanic, Black, White, Muslim, whatever. I am being an isolationist and a conservative.

I'll give you in example how most, not all but most, Republicans lost their conservative way of thinking. Lets take the biggest hypocrite in the Republican party, George Bush. George Bush tripled the size of the Federal Government during his eight years in office. This is not conservative for all of you conservative bashers out there. Conservatives believe in limited government. George Bush again, declaring war on Afghanistan and sending troops to Iraq. Now at the time of 9/11 I was in support of the war (I am not going into whether 9/11 was a cover up or not. But lets assume it wasnt, for the sake of getting my point across). But this should have only been a in and out situation. We go into Afghanistan, destroy a bunch of terrorists camps, then get the hell out of there. Of course this hasnt happened and we are still in the middle east and its been eight years since 9/11. EIGHT YEARS... Afghanistan is a third world country and we are still in Afghanistan...Thats very conservative of you George Bush. (sarcasm). I could keep going about the Patriot Act, or homeland security but you should be able to get my point.

A Real conservative would be

+ A person who opposes strong Federal Government

+ A person who opposes war

+ A person that is an isolationist

Real conservative politicians in the United States are

+ Ron Paul

+ Murray Sabrin

+ William Redpath

+ Newt Gingrich

+ Mike Gravel

+ B.J. Lawson

Thats really all that I can think of from the top of my head....Look them up study the if you want more information conservative politicians. Oh, Bob Barr too, his name just popped up in my head. Thats all that I really want to say.

I don't think many people on this forum really cares what the definitions of liberal or conservative mean. I don't think they care about the left or right, for the most part. The reason being?:

A statist is a statist is a statist.... etc, etc.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

JAlanKatz — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:29:58 GMT

krazy kaju:
Conservatism is more of a philosophical movement than an ideological one. My understanding of conservatism is that it consists of protecting and defending the traditions and customs of a particular society. Thus, conservatism can vary from region to region, based on the cultures present in those regions. A Chinese conservative, for example, has completely different ideological beliefs from a German conservative.

Doesn't sound particularly libertarian to me.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

filc — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:57:25 GMT

krazy kaju:

filc:
What exactly does it mean to be conservative?

Conservatism is more of a philosophical movement than an ideological one. My understanding of conservatism is that it consists of protecting and defending the traditions and customs of a particular society. Thus, conservatism can vary from region to region, based on the cultures present in those regions. A Chinese conservative, for example, has completely different ideological beliefs from a German conservative.

Are most conservatives aware of the flaws that traditionalism carries with it?

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

SirThinkALot — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:39:43 GMT

Isaac "Izzy" Marmolejo:

If you think being a conservative is to be pro war, interventionists, or to be big government, you are wrong. This is mostly towards Americans. Conservatives have been looked down upon these last view years. But in reality, most people dont know what a conservative is in America. Lets try to clear some minds about conservatives now.

Pro war isnt conservative thinking. For some reason when people think of all the people that are pro war, they think of republicans. Well, yes, most republicans are pro war, but they have lost there conservative thinking. To be a real conservative, you have to believe in isolationism. Isolationism is when a country does not involve itself with other nations. And if we dont involve ourselves in other peoples' business, then we wouldnt have a reason to send troops overseas.Right?

We have to provide safety for our citizens FIRST before we go off trying to save the whole world. This is why American charities that help foreign countries piss me off. For example, when a charity asks for food to send to Africa. WHAT?! We have starving kids in America that we should be helping. Another thing that makes me furious is when people adopt in foreign countries. We have poor kids in America that need homes too. Are you just going to throw them under the bus because you rather help a kid in a foreign country? I am not being racist, I support charities to help American citizens that are Asian, Hispanic, Black, White, Muslim, whatever. I am being an isolationist and a conservative.

I'll give you in example how most, not all but most, Republicans lost their conservative way of thinking. Lets take the biggest hypocrite in the Republican party, George Bush. George Bush tripled the size of the Federal Government during his eight years in office. This is not conservative for all of you conservative bashers out there. Conservatives believe in limited government. George Bush again, declaring war on Afghanistan and sending troops to Iraq. Now at the time of 9/11 I was in support of the war (I am not going into whether 9/11 was a cover up or not. But lets assume it wasnt, for the sake of getting my point across). But this should have only been a in and out situation. We go into Afghanistan, destroy a bunch of terrorists camps, then get the hell out of there. Of course this hasnt happened and we are still in the middle east and its been eight years since 9/11. EIGHT YEARS... Afghanistan is a third world country and we are still in Afghanistan...Thats very conservative of you George Bush. (sarcasm). I could keep going about the Patriot Act, or homeland security but you should be able to get my point.

A Real conservative would be

+ A person who opposes strong Federal Government

+ A person who opposes war

+ A person that is an isolationist

Real conservative politicians in the United States are

+ Ron Paul

+ Murray Sabrin

+ William Redpath

+ Newt Gingrich

+ Mike Gravel

+ B.J. Lawson

Thats really all that I can think of from the top of my head....Look them up study the if you want more information conservative politicians. Oh, Bob Barr too, his name just popped up in my head. Thats all that I really want to say.

I agree most so-called 'conservitives' these days actually fall into one of three catagories(or maybe more than one):

-Big government Republicans

-Neocon war-hawks.

-religious moralists.

None of which are actually supportative of a TRUE conservitive agenda

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Saan — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:15:52 GMT

Calling yourself a conservative right now is akin to calling yourself a socialist of the nationalist variety. The same as Liberal now is a socialist of the lenninist variety. Agree with a conservative platform partially you are nazi. Agree with a liberal platform partially and you are a Commie. No wonder it's so easy for liberty to slip.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

krazy kaju — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:08:31 GMT

filc:
What exactly does it mean to be conservative?

Conservatism is more of a philosophical movement than an ideological one. My understanding of conservatism is that it consists of protecting and defending the traditions and customs of a particular society. Thus, conservatism can vary from region to region, based on the cultures present in those regions. A Chinese conservative, for example, has completely different ideological beliefs from a German conservative.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Htut — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:49:11 GMT

Hmm. Well, I suppose I'm in favor of 'isolationism', as a consequence of my rejection of the state. I would consider myself more of a social radical than anything.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

filc — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:42:30 GMT

Nitroadict:
:head explodes:

Wow that didn't take long. Let me try again. Whats the meaning of life?

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

Nitroadict — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:29:22 GMT

filc:

What exactly does it mean to be conservative? I never understood this. It always seemed like a mix of classic liberalism with arbitrary inconsistent holes filled up with nationalism. I always feel like they copy cat libertarian's or AE economic arguments at their convenience to bolster arguments on a convenience basis but never follow through with the same arguments when it addresses their cultural values.

An honest person will tell you that the term is more or less dead nowadays, and it's popular usage is typically used to identify anything that isn't liberal, another dead term, which uses conservative as a term to identity anything not liberal, which is another dead ter-

:head explodes:

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

filc — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:10:24 GMT

What exactly does it mean to be conservative? I never understood this. It always seemed like a mix of classic liberalism with arbitrary inconsistent holes filled up with nationalism. I always feel like they copy cat libertarian's or AE economic arguments at their convenience to bolster arguments on a convenience basis but never follow through with the same arguments when it addresses their cultural values.

Re: Conservative??? Most are really not, are you?...

ladyattis — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:52:40 GMT

To the original poster that's trying to defend Newt Gingrich, here's a fun fact, he supported a bill that would have given inner city and under-'privileged' children laptops and computers for home use. If he's a conservative, why does he want or has wanted to spend like a drunken Democrat?