Political Theory

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Andrew Cain — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:47:55 GMT

Esuric:
Should I refer to them individually by name?

Well when people use the words they usually imply that every 'founding father' had the same mentality towards politics. Such as 'the founding fathers established a republic for the people.' Well not every one of them wanted the same thing. There is definitely a distinction.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Nitroadict — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:16:45 GMT

Juan:
Esuric:
Indeed, the founding fathers supported capitalism,
Hmm. You mean slavery and mercantilism are 'capitalism' ?

They are when those who confuse terms write the dictionaries & spread these misinterpretations memetically throughout culture.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Saan — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:39:04 GMT

filc:
Did they during the abolition? I'd be interested in knowing this.

The GOP didn't. Lincoln was a racist. Conservatives, as they are traditionally defined were the southern states during that time. The GOP a.k.a the Federalists co-opted the abolition movement in order to consolidate power, they hold the conservative title in America now along with the democrats. A conservative now, as traditionally defined would be a new dealer i.e. both parties in the face of reform.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Htut — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:20:37 GMT

Laughing Man:

Esuric:
Indeed, the founding fathers supported capitalism, and so must they.

Ugh, whenever someone says 'founding fathers' it makes me want to choke them...metaphorically of course.

Despotic Ghost Daddies!

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Juan — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:57:56 GMT

Esuric:
Indeed, the founding fathers supported capitalism,

Hmm. You mean slavery and mercantilism are 'capitalism' ?

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

scineram — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:52:48 GMT

The job of progressives is to make mistakes. The job of conservatives is to prevent those mistakes from being corrected.

Or something like that.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

fakename — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:19:51 GMT

progressivism and conservatism are both fundamentally inconsistent ideologies: The latter is based off of faith, observation, repetition, and a general feeling that whatever worked over and over again would work again. But it too lapses into a more radical strain as it tries to reach for consistency, this radical strain being neoconservatism or fascism. The progressives probably have a very similar epistemic framework but they are also probably inherently more anaylitic in that they reduce the world around them to something that needs to be changed based off of common definitions (capitalism = stinginess for instance and stinginess=not good, so socialism is what needs to be implemented). But again progressivism lapses into defending the status quo by finding humanitarian reasons to fight wars and also by producing middle-of-the-road pseudo-privatization-pragmatism aka clintonism.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Capital Pumper — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 10:12:53 GMT

Praetyre:

Conservatism = anti communism - big government + morality ~ Judeo-Christian

rhetoric to the fourth power (anti communism - big government + morality ~ Judeo-Christian) + democracy = Ronald Reagan

Ronald Reagan = Capitalism

Pretty close.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Praetyre — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:58:38 GMT

Capital Pumper:

filc:

Conservatives however seemed to have agreed to capitalism arbitrarily.

Not at all, It's really quite simple.

The missing link between conservatism and capitalism can be summed up in these three equations:

CO = AC - BG + M ~JC

R^4 (AC - BG + M ~JC) + D = RR

RR = CA

Ok, I get that CO=Conservatism, AC=Anarcho capitalism, CA=Capitalism and RR=Ronald Reagan, but what are BG (big government?), M (military?) JC (Jesus Christ?) and D (democracy?)?

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Capital Pumper — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:57:29 GMT

filc:

lol

Try to decipher the variables.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Esuric — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:55:36 GMT

Laughing Man:
Ugh, whenever someone says 'founding fathers' it makes me want to choke them...metaphorically of course.

Should I refer to them individually by name?

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Andrew Cain — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:51:19 GMT

Esuric:
Indeed, the founding fathers supported capitalism, and so must they.

Ugh, whenever someone says 'founding fathers' it makes me want to choke them...metaphorically of course.

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Esuric — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:44:22 GMT

filc:
Conservatives however seemed to have agreed to capitalism arbitrarily. As a result, I guess, some of their other beliefs seem to be in conflict with capitalism.

Indeed, the founding fathers supported capitalism, and so must they. They're not interested in justifying their positions, rather, they'll appeal to Reagan as some kind of divine authority. This is why they're utterly incapable of defending capitalism when challenged by the "liberals" and "progressives." And it's also why the liberal's ignore libertarians, and focus on Hannity/Limbaugh.

bloomj31:
Although, my family got rich through industry and trade but has steadily become more and more liberal. But it's a Jewish family and that seems to be the trend. Which is odd.

What? What's odd about that?

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

filc — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:13:51 GMT

Capital Pumper:

The missing link between conservatism and capitalism can be summed up in these three equations:

CO = AC - BG + M ~JC

R^4 (AC - BG + M ~JC) + D = RR

RR = CA

lol

The Late Andrew Ryan:
There are two types of conservative, those who do just assume that their parents or the past was better, and those who join through principles.

yea I guess this is what I am trying to get at. Their principles seem arbitrary. Don't they see the inconsistencies? *shrug*

Re: Conservativism and Capitalism

Capital Pumper — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:58:55 GMT

filc:

Conservatives however seemed to have agreed to capitalism arbitrarily.

Not at all, It's really quite simple.

The missing link between conservatism and capitalism can be summed up in these three equations:

CO = AC - BG + M ~JC

R^4 (AC - BG + M ~JC) + D = RR

RR = CA