Political Theory

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

JackCuyler — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:22:24 GMT

limitgov:

It doesn't say anything about education or healthcare....

Exactly. The Constitution does not prohibit the states from getting involved with education or health care.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

scineram — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:12:42 GMT

limitgov:

It doesn't say anything about education or healthcare....

So how is it prohibited?

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

onebornfree — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:42:41 GMT

limitgov:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Does the 10th amendment allow for the states to provide public education?

If not, please be specific as to why it does not. I need some help in debating this.

The new federal government was originally "supposed" to be limited to certain designated functions, and "supposedly" ultimately limited by the clarifying language of the 9th and10th amendments. Providing for public education was not one of its designated functions.

Elected senators from each state were "supposed" to make sure that this happened , so that each state ultimately remained sovereign and ran its own internal affairs , and that the federal government did not encroach on those affairs . [ie they were "supposed" to remain loyal to the state that elected them - however the 17th amendment later changed all that]

Each state could "supposedly" do anything not prohibited by its own constitution [including the financing of public education if the state constitution was amended to provide for it] .

"Supposedly"

Regards, onebornfree.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

limitgov — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 00:56:38 GMT

JackCuyler:

limitgov:

Well, considering that the constitution was designed to spell out the powers of the federal government...you are not going to find much it prohibits.

Are you sure about that?

Article I, Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Article IV - The States

Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Section 3 - New States

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

It doesn't say anything about education or healthcare....

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

JackCuyler — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:39:29 GMT

limitgov:

Well, considering that the constitution was designed to spell out the powers of the federal government...you are not going to find much it prohibits.

Are you sure about that?

Article I, Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Article IV - The States

Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Section 3 - New States

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

limitgov — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:41:56 GMT

JackCuyler:

limitgov:

All it says is everything else is reserved to the state....

Obviously this cannot mean the state can do whatever they want?

They can do whatever they want provided it is not prohibited by the Constitution. Breaking it down, the Federal government may only do what is specifically allowed by the Constitution. The states may do anything not prohibited by the Constitution. This was later modified by the 14th amendment.

Well, considering that the constitution was designed to spell out the powers of the federal government...you are not going to find much it prohibits.

Are you sure about that?

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

Michelangelo — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:52:48 GMT

Public education wasn't exactly considered an area in which a state had legitimate authority in during the drafting of the US Constitution; with the exception of Prussia perhaps (?) - so no if we're taking history into context. Additionally, most of the amendments, including this one, don't give the affirmative "right" to either the state or the individual. The states weren't created by the Federal Government and so derive their powers from their respective constitutions. The Constitutional tenth amendment does not give any powers to the state. They merely deny such power to the Federal Government.

e.g. The Bill of Rights doesn't give anyone the right of free speech. It simplies deny the Federal Government in such a manner as to restrict it.

Short answer: no.

Alternatively, if you're an AnCap and don't believe in the legitimacy of social contract theory - it's still a no.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

JackCuyler — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:48:21 GMT

limitgov:

All it says is everything else is reserved to the state....

Obviously this cannot mean the state can do whatever they want?

They can do whatever they want provided it is not prohibited by the Constitution. Breaking it down, the Federal government may only do what is specifically allowed by the Constitution. The states may do anything not prohibited by the Constitution. This was later modified by the 14th amendment.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

limitgov — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:25:44 GMT

krazy kaju:

Yeah, it does allow for state-run education. Though I presume one could interpret the 9th amendment in such a way to not allow for it.

All it says is everything else is reserved to the state....

Obviously this cannot mean the state can do whatever they want?

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

krazy kaju — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:31:44 GMT

Yeah, it does allow for state-run education. Though I presume one could interpret the 9th amendment in such a way to not allow for it.

Re: Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

limitgov — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:23:36 GMT

please...I really need some help on this issue.

Does the 10th Amendment Allow Public Education?

limitgov — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:41:59 GMT

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Does the 10th amendment allow for the states to provide public education?

If not, please be specific as to why it does not. I need some help in debating this.