Political Theory

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

fakename — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:36:44 GMT

I wonder what the anarchists think about the Southern Poverty Law Center? If they favor more government before the end of government then I suppose they don't have a problem with the state monitoring us?

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Andrew Cain — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:20:54 GMT

sicsempertyrannis:

Yes it is. It comes from 'Orgins of the Welfare State in America': http://mises.org/story/2225. Of course I agree with it so I personally dont see the big deal.

The wording and quotes are mostly taken from this 'Intelligence' Report from the Southern Poverty Law Center here.

What I find funny is that they never ask us if this is a correct view to hold and assume that everything authors say is beyond being wrong and yet we are the 'zealots'.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Andrew Cain — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:14:52 GMT

Daniel Muffinburg:
So what you are saying is that they feel lonely and want attention? :P

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Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

sicsempertyrannis — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:48:22 GMT

Esuric:

Felipe:
Rothbard:

"The call of 'equality,'" he wrote, "is a siren song that can only mean the destruction of all that we cherish as being human." Rothbard blamed much of what he disliked on meddling women. In the mid-1800s, a "legion of Yankee women" who were "not fettered by the responsibilities" of household work "imposed" voting rights for women on the nation. Later, Jewish women, after raising funds from "top Jewish financiers," agitated for child labor laws, Rothbard adds with evident disgust. The "dominant tradition" of all these activist women, he suggests, is lesbianism. "

This isn't Rothbard, so cite your sources. Though I basically agree with this position.

Yes it is. It comes from 'Orgins of the Welfare State in America': http://mises.org/story/2225. Of course I agree with it so I personally dont see the big deal.

The wording and quotes are mostly taken from this 'Intelligence' Report from the Southern Poverty Law Center here.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

DanielMuff — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:43:27 GMT

Laughing Man:

fakename:

does anyone else find this strangely funny?

Somewhat. I mean the only people who know what revleft is, is us. Really I think this is an attempt to raise revleft forum activity. They insult us, we go over there and put them in their place, they get a vital boost necessary to continue their charade.

So what you are saying is that they feel lonely and want attention? :P

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Andrew Cain — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:16:49 GMT

fakename:

does anyone else find this strangely funny?

Somewhat. I mean the only people who know what revleft is, is us. Really I think this is an attempt to raise revleft forum activity. They insult us, we go over there and put them in their place, they get a vital boost necessary to continue their charade.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

fakename — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:12:50 GMT

does anyone else find this strangely funny?

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Andrew Cain — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:06:12 GMT

They really love us over there.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

DanielMuff — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:22:22 GMT

Felipe:
... the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism-will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.

This one can be easily put into context. The quote is from Democracy: The God that Failed.

The quote appears at the end of a paragraph where Hoppe argues that, in a libertarian social order, "[t]here can be no tolerance towards democrats and communists[.]" "Likewise," Hoppe continues, "in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin (emphasis added), there can be no tolerance towards those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal." The next sentence is the following quote:

They -- the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism--will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.

The last two words of the above quote may be misleading. However, it can only follow that this particular "libertarian order" was one "founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin[.]"

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Eric — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:49:36 GMT

Felipe:

If someone has the will and the patience to reply in revleft here is the thread:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/libertarians-t126834/index3.html?highlight=libertarianism

I would do it but Im afraid I dont have the stomach for a prolonged struggle.

I think that "Olaf" guy did a pretty good job.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

AJ — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:57:01 GMT

Response to all the quoters: It isn't the origin of an idea that determines it's validity. That's just about the lowest thinking error one can make.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Giant_Joe — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:39:32 GMT

Ah. The good old counter-intellectual Marxist strategy. Discredit Pythagoras to undermine his theorem.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 05:57:14 GMT

I vaguely recall saying some of these things, but I couldn't tell you which ones specifically.

What's worst is I cannot even fathom what they hope to prove by quote-mining these... are they really so myopic? Well we should thank them for publicising our arguments to their clueless ilk.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

E. R. Olovetto — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 05:21:29 GMT

Jackson LaRose:

E. R. Olovetto:
I bet if I posted anything on Revleft they'd send to their concentration camps.

You would deserve it, you bourgeois, counter-revolutionary enemy of the people

At least I am not a waste of space.

Re: Critics against libertarianism in revleft

Stranger — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 05:00:05 GMT

Felipe:

Quotes from Mises.org:

“There’s a good reason the poor are poor, they’re less intelligent than the wealthy.”

“As such, it follows that legitimacy is derived from the claim that the government can help the poor. The poor buy into this as a result of moral and intellectual weakness.”

“Nonetheless we do favour individuals with authority, in the form of a natural elite.”

“If the parents wish to use force, then so be it. The child consents by continuing to live off his parents.”

“Libertarianism doesn’t support equal negative rights, a child does not have the same rights as an adult.”

“This doesn’t imply equal negative rights for adults. Some adults, such as primitives, are not capable of rational argumentation and cannot be brought peacefully into the division of labour. Moreover, they have no conception of property rights nor any enforcable claim.”

“These people (tribal or less developed cultures) simply aren’t capable of rational argumentation, and therefore have no rights, whether this is biological or cultural makes no differences.”

“The fact is they often cannot be brought within the division of labour and without any concept of property rights it’s impossible that they own anything. Moreover they have no legitimate claim to any of this territory and as such it’s free to be homesteaded.”

“People incapable of moral choice must either abide by the decisions of those who are or they must be removed from free society.”

“Against people who have no law, the initiation of force is fully justified.”

“It was not wrong for the spanish to overthrow an empire that literally fed on its slaves in religious rituals and replace it with its much milder form of serfdom.”

“Childish rejection of a natural order and authority isn’t the opposite to subservience. It’s a bad trait that needs to be kept down until the youth have matured sufficiently.”

“A private ruler must respect property rights simply because his wealth depends on clearly defined laws explaining what is, and isn’t legitimate property and how people should act in regards to this.”

“Anarcho capitalism and anarchism are synonomous. Anything that can’t be subsumed under anarcho capitalism, is internally inconsistant, and needs to be thrown out.”

“So long as government commands a monopoly over all land, the closed border position is defensible.”

“It is only reasonable to expect the state to fulfill its duties as a land owner.”

“The only system that would have no borders would be a world government.”

“Seeing as towns would be owned by single entrepreneurs…”

“Why wouldn’t people sell their land to a single entrepreneur? The have no interest in owning land, only in being able to lease it from some owner.”

“There’s nothing new about left-libertarians. They are still the same anti-capitalist who hated big business when Lenin promised to keep control of the commanding heights of the economy.”

“Anybody can benefit from the state and anybody can become a part of it.”

“It’s necessary to remove bad elements from a movement. Which is exactly what the libertarian movement should be doing to non Austrians and the likes of Molyneux. Lenin was exactly right in this regard.”

“Opposition to the family and church sounds somewhat Marxist to me, any libertarian society will be founded upon those two institutions so in a sense yes, one does need to be a cultural conservative to be a libertarian.”

“The state by it’s very nature is egalitarian in the widest sense of the word.”

“The only unifying principle of a secular, multicultural society is the democratic state.”

“Feudalism is actually an entirely appropriate model for anarchist society, and my prediction is it’s coming whether the anarchists like it or not.”

“A system of feudal holdings all competing with each other for human and fiscal capital stacks up pretty good against a system whereby the parasitic majority lives off the productive minority.”

Thanks to Polycentric Order for assembling the collection. All the quotes were taken from the Mises.org forum.

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Were you aware of these quotes? are they real?

I vaguely recall saying some of these things, but I couldn't tell you which ones specifically.