Political Theory

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:28:39 GMT

But in that example the demand is for Watches and cereal, not labor. In our situation the demand is specifically for labor. Or did you already forget that point?

Look its very difficult to hold a conversation if we cannot remember the points made previously. All of my subsequent posts are related to previous. So how many times do I need to remind you that this is about immigration? The only difference between the example Mises provided and our situation is what is in demand.

This is why I don't think you guys care for an honest debate.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:04:06 GMT

A good example on protectionism.

Mises HA Pg 395 4th revised edition (PRICES):

Modern technology could easily grow oranges and grapes in hot-houses in the arctic and subarctic countries. Everybody would call such a venture lunacy. But it is essentially the same to preserve the growing of cereals in rocky mountain valleys by tariffs and other devices of protectionism while elsewhere there is plenty of fallow fertile land. The difference is merely one of degree.

The inhabitants of the Swiss Jura prefer to manufacture watches instead of growing wheat. Watchmaking is for them the cheapest way to acquire wheat. On the other hand the growing of wheat is the cheapest way for the Canadian farmer to acquire watches. The fact that the inhabitants of the Jura do not grow wheat and the Canadians do not manufacture watches is not more worthy of notice than the fact that tailors do not make their shoes and shoemakers do not make their clothes.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:09:24 GMT

Paraphrasing is necessary when someone is being vague or is obfuscating.

Aside from that where was I personally attacking? I have no beef with anyone here, not even [EDIT] that other guy.

polemicist:
I am actually a fascist,

I added polemicists comment so you could be sure i was not attacking him. Though I guess I will refrain from calling him as much, despite he's agreed to the name.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

Stephen — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:10:40 GMT

filc:
Since the other gentlemen here were more concerned with being petty I thought I'd actually make an effort to resurrect this attroachous conversation into one that is coherent.

I'm willing to have an honest discussion if you are.

filc:
To do that we need to look at each subject, point by point, and discuss the contentions there in.

I'm down.

filc:
Now on the flip side, if you accept the law of comparative advantage you would know that even a retard can produce a solid economic output to society as a whole.

Totally accept the law of association. It's just not the only thing to consider.

filc:
No one here really wants an honest discussion

Not true. I'll engage if you stop the personal attacks and 'summarizations' and 'paraphrasing.' Actually, I don't even mind those as long as you're still making valid points and advancing the discussion. It just got to the point where that was all that you were doing (mischaracterizing and personalizing).

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

polemicist — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:40:32 GMT

filc:
Byzantine:
Higher IQ is correlated very strongly with lower time preference and better impulse control. Generally speaking, higher IQ individuals are more productive which is why they earn better incomes and live in nicer neighborhoods.

In NYC during the summer ice cream sales correlate with homicide rates. Perhaps we should ban ice cream?

Standardized tests are the pinnacle of empirical error.

As a last post - I just have to say this left me laughing out loud! Sadly, I had to grow up in Brooklyn and there is one thing I can tell you - the homicides tend to occur in neighborhoods without free standing ice cream stands (no Louie G's in the hood!) and limited access to ice cream trucks!

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

polemicist — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:36:40 GMT

Grayson Lilburne:

polemicist,

drop the inquisition of filc over his race and origin. Mention it one more time, or call him a coward again (or any other insult), and you're out.

Having reviewed filc's posts - which are almost always needlessly condescending - and your own self professed adherence to libertarianism, I'm fairly confident there is nothing of value here. It may have taken a few posts to incite the truth, i.e. blood guilt is the justification for our oppression, but most posts here appear to be those of true believers, in the Eric Hoffer sense of the word. The problem is this peculiar kind of fanaticism simply does not appeal to a sufficient number of people that would required to affect political change. Therefore, it serves no purpose towards that end.

My sincerest apologies for having to use incendiary rhetorical techniques to demonstrate this fact, but you can rest easy as I will not be participating again.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:18:02 GMT

Byzantine:
Both of those economic phenomena arise from the fact that people are very different in intelligence and abilities and, as such, can be expected to craft different cultures. The idea that all cultures are equal and compatible is a public school pipe dream.

Where did I state that cultures were equal? The law of comparative advantage assumes they are not, that is the point. The law states that if there is a party that in all aspects is inferior to another party, it would still be beneficial for both parties to trade. Their economic output overall is greater by working together, despite the differences and despite the fact that the inferior party cannot outproduce the superior party in any aspect.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:11:28 GMT

Byzantine:
If you get cancer, you can probably find some good, cheap low IQ doctors.

I hadn't realized you could search for a physician via highest IQ. I also didn't realize high IQ meant higher deserved salary. Perhaps I should take that up with my employer, he's paying me too much. Excuse my sarcasm.

Byzantine:
Higher IQ is correlated very strongly with lower time preference and better impulse control. Generally speaking, higher IQ individuals are more productive which is why they earn better incomes and live in nicer neighborhoods.

In NYC during the summer ice cream sales correlate with homicide rates. Perhaps we should ban ice cream?

Standardized tests are the pinnacle of empirical error.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

Daniel James Sanchez — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:02:03 GMT

polemicist,

drop the inquisition of filc over his race and origin. Mention it one more time, or call him a coward again (or any other insult), and you're out.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

filc — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:25:06 GMT

IQ is a rudimentary and often fallacious method of measuring ones competency. It says nothing about the economic productivity of a person.

The purpose of seperating out crime, welfare, and economic is so that we can, in a logical and methodical fashion, discuss the points of contention on each topic. Where as previous several people here have been obfuscating their arguments mixing fear of crime with the economic problem and also claiming that immigrants are the soul responsible party for welfare. Ect....

Since the other gentlemen here were more concerned with being petty I thought I'd actually make an effort to resurrect this attroachous conversation into one that is coherent. To do that we need to look at each subject, point by point, and discuss the contentions there in. Now on the flip side, if you accept the law of comparative advantage you would know that even a retard can produce a solid economic output to society as a whole.

Ultimately though what this tells me is that you, Stephen, and the fascist reject the law of comparative advantage and reject the values of the division of labor. This is ultimately what I wanted to point out. I grow tire of weeding through other peoples self contradicting statements so I have decided to call it quits on this discussion. No one here really wants an honest discussion and other mises forum members do not seem interested in this topic for whatever reason. As such I cannot reason with the unreasonable.

Have a good one.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

Angurse — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:33:31 GMT

polemicist:
There is no difference between the breeding behavior of humans and other mammals. The point I was trying to make is selective pressure, regardless of the cause, affects physical and behavioral attributes. Selective pressures need not be forcefully coercive.

I see, you were just using the term "selective breeding" incorrectly.

Re: A Misesian View on Immigration?

polemicist — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:29:18 GMT

Angurse:

polemicist:
I'm sure you know a few economists who surely cannot find a willing sex partner. Obviously, people selectively breed people. Why else do you think we have these pointless debates on the internet and a huge pornography industry. For people who cannot exercise their will to power in the sexual realm, pretending that their ideas will affect the course of history is the next best thing.

That isn't selective breeding at all. Otherwise the natural occurrence of animal mating is also selective breeding, voiding it of any meaning.

There is no difference between the breeding behavior of humans and other mammals. The point I was trying to make is selective pressure, regardless of the cause, affects physical and behavioral attributes. Selective pressures need not be forcefully coercive.