Political Theory

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Telpeurion — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:20:34 GMT

Marko:

Stranger:

Telpeurion:

If you are keen on dying or lounging about in 4 x 4 cell for the remainder of your conscious existence then, please, be my guest and resist. You have to change peoples' minds on the subject, and they aren't apt to do so when their capacity for violence outweighs your own.

Don't be such a pessimist. Even Hitler only did a few years in prison for trying to overthrow the government.

And even Saddam Hussein only got shot up in the leg a little.

The United States of America holds in reserve the greatest punishments for treason.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Marko — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:29:56 GMT

Stranger:

Telpeurion:

If you are keen on dying or lounging about in 4 x 4 cell for the remainder of your conscious existence then, please, be my guest and resist. You have to change peoples' minds on the subject, and they aren't apt to do so when their capacity for violence outweighs your own.

Don't be such a pessimist. Even Hitler only did a few years in prison for trying to overthrow the government.

And even Saddam Hussein only got shot up in the leg a little.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Stranger — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:17:34 GMT

Telpeurion:

If you are keen on dying or lounging about in 4 x 4 cell for the remainder of your conscious existence then, please, be my guest and resist. You have to change peoples' minds on the subject, and they aren't apt to do so when their capacity for violence outweighs your own.

Don't be such a pessimist. Even Hitler only did a few years in prison for trying to overthrow the government.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Telpeurion — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:37:51 GMT

If you are keen on dying or lounging about in 4 x 4 cell for the remainder of your conscious existence then, please, be my guest and resist. You have to change peoples' minds on the subject, and they aren't apt to do so when their capacity for violence outweighs your own.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Eric M. Staib — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:17:14 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

Why so opposed to violent resistance, amigo?

Hoppe makes a convincing case for political assassination of monarchs who get out of line. This could apply equally well to the heads of any state system. Once a precedent is set that oppressive authority will not be tolerated, few will attempt to seize such authority.

If you're committed to pacifism, then donations to the Mises Institute are probably the best way! :-)

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

John Jensen — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:44:13 GMT

Once limited government breaks its chains, I don't think there's much you can do to stop it or reverse (at least on a large and lasting scale). We haven't tried the "as a last resort" option of a constitutional convention, but that's a coin toss. I mean, look who is in the White House. I think AJ Nock nailed it in Our Enemy, The State. We are the remnant.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

onebornfree — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:02:13 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

Since violent resistance ultimately only succeeds in increasing the power of what you want to resist, and as a martial artist myself, I've always liked the the concept of what Bruce Lee called "The Art of Fighting Without Fighting":

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Clayton — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:49:50 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

Laughing Man:

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

What the Mises Institute itself is doing. Taking an intellectual sledgehammer to the edifice of government.

I'd wonder if that's really accomplishing much. The state has at least the underlying approval of an enormous number of people.

Geocentrism also once had the underlying approval of an enormous number of people... all the experts save one or two and (by implication), the masses. As a recent Mises.org daily said, (paraphrase) "Belief that government is necessary for social order is a superstition." It is, in fact, a superstition and deserves a thorough drubbing like any other superstition, through reasoned argument consistent with the physical world. Someday, we can hope it will be as absurd in respectable society to mention the State in a positive light as it is today to mention geocentrism in a positive light. Maybe, with time, future scholars will be able to excuse us for our present folly by showing how we had simply reacted to the incentives facing us in a way that lead to the many terrors and atrocities which the State has visited upon mankind. But for now, all I know is that the State is the single greatest evil in this world and every moral human being owes a duty to find how best they can cooperate in bringing an end to this monstrosity which has systematically beaten down and subjugated mankind for millenia.

Even if you take direct action against the state, without the principled support of those dependent on it you run the risk of a great mass of people opposing you to defend the status quo.

It is impossible to take direct action against the state. Even the most peremptory action in the direction of tactical resistance against the State will be soundly defeated with overwhelming force. But the State's true power does not lie in force, it lies in the perception of the legitimacy of its monopoly on dispute-resolution (courts). The territorial monopoly on law is the pointy tip of the pyramid of power of the State. Hence, to oppose the state most efficiently (using an intellectual approach), one should attack the legitimacy of its monopoly on law. All other avenues of attack are less important by comparison.

The problem with reaching out to those people who give the state justification through inaction though, is that concentrations of political activity in the form of voter blocks, interest groups and other political entities disagree on essentially everything except the increase in government influence to their own benefit. People who stand to benefit from this intervention also stand to defend it and justify as best they can to preserve it.

Exactly. Politics cannot be ended through political means, witness the mockery of the "Contract with America" or Reagan's monstrous double-speak about government being the problem not the solution while he expanded the size of the government at an unprecedented rate.

Unless some method of addressing this factionalism and reaching out to a wider audience can be found, all we'll have done by studying the negative impact of government is witnessing the course of history take its decline into further oppression.

There's not likely much else that any of us can do. Do you think that the rise of the major 20th century dictators could have been stopped by a few conscientious objectors? The most subversive thing that the people can do is stop cooperating with state mandates in every way they can to their own profit. As the government throws up more and more roadblocks to exchange in a futile attempt to exact the greatest pile of loot from the productive sector that it can manage, it will be the boot-leggers and blockade-runners who will be the most heroic resisters of State power of all. All that principled scholars, like those who are members of LvMI, can do is write the truth and hope for the best... and in the long run, it is their ideas which will finally destroy the State. But the people who actually slay the dragon will be nameless, innumerable, unremarkable... people just looking to make a buck and get on with their lives as best they are able. The death of the State will be by a million or billion cuts, not by any staged protest, rally or political movement.

Please read this to understand why.

Clayton -

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

solos — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:38:21 GMT

I've been reading about Gary Becker on wiki and his insight into politics seems like the most realist approach (similar to agorism) to bring about real change.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Spideynw — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:27:02 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

freestateproject.org

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Goddard Elliott Lewko — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:51:18 GMT

Laughing Man:

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

What the Mises Institute itself is doing. Taking an intellectual sledgehammer to the edifice of government.

I'd wonder if that's really accomplishing much. The state has at least the underlying approval of an enormous number of people. Even if you take direct action against the state, without the principled support of those dependent on it you run the risk of a great mass of people opposing you to defend the status quo. The problem with reaching out to those people who give the state justification through inaction though, is that concentrations of political activity in the form of voter blocks, interest groups and other political entities disagree on essentially everything except the increase in government influence to their own benefit. People who stand to benefit from this intervention also stand to defend it and justify as best they can to preserve it.

Unless some method of addressing this factionalism and reaching out to a wider audience can be found, all we'll have done by studying the negative impact of government is witnessing the course of history take its decline into further oppression.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Caley McKibbin — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:39:15 GMT

Exactly the same way they defeated us.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Stranger — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:17:48 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

Well any kind of opposition to rights infringement involves violence, so discarding violence really doesn't do any good. The problem is not using or not using violence, but using violence towards which objective.

Nuclear weapons, for example, are not very violent since there are no objectives towards which they can be used. A car bomb is violent because there are lots of objectives for one. (If you visit U.S. embassies, they now all have their own moats to defend against these.)

Until we define the objective, no kind of action will be possible.

Re: So how does one defeat the bandits?

Andrew Cain — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:24:01 GMT

Goddard Elliott Lewko:

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?

What the Mises Institute itself is doing. Taking an intellectual sledgehammer to the edifice of government.

So how does one defeat the bandits?

Goddard Elliott Lewko — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:16:13 GMT

I've read plenty of information detailing how much alike violently enforced compulsory government is to a variety of pleasantries such as parasites to bandits. There have been plenty of arguments made to favor a world without thieves and robbers masquerading as kings and nobles. When it comes time to ask what to do about it though, that becomes a topic far more sparsely talked about. What can one really do to reverse the trend of this increasingly encroaching entity, short of violent resistance?