Political Theory

Re: Bay of Pigs

jmorris84 — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:16:22 GMT

And here I thought this thread was going to be about Marc Houle's Bay of Figs...

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Re: Bay of Pigs

Smiling Dave — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:01:22 GMT

JAlanKatz:

So, this question occurred to me last night. I'm not sure it's what happened, but pretend for a minute, just to get to the question. Suppose you were President, and without your agreement, you found out that your military officials had trained a group of Cubans to invade and defeat Castro, and that presently, those Cubans were invading, with American air support.

As I read about it, the CIA invaded without air support. They assumed that JFK, presented with a fait accompli on the ground, would have no choice but to back it uop with air support.

As a non-interventionist, you are horrified.

I would be horrified for a different reason. The way it was before Castro, most people lived like impoverished animals, literally. There was a part of town that was a huge tourist trap, which housed the casinos and brothels. The mafia and CIA and Batista were partners in the casinos and whore houses, where you could have 6 year old girls if you wanted.

The average Joe in Cuba didn't like this at all. Castro overthrew Batista with huge popular support, and a crappy army.

Well, the mafia and CIA were not going to take this loss of income lying down. After repeated failed attempts at assasinating Castro, they tried the Bay of Pigs thing. As one eyewitness described it, "We invaded Cuba with the most modern weapons. We met the Cuban soldiers face to face, and they were all barefoot peasents armed with primitive garbage. We mowed them down like flies. Everything was great, but for one little hitch. We ran out of bullets. That's when the tide turned, of course."

Now we know Castro has not improved Cuba by much. Maybe there are no more child prostitutes, but everyone is still dirt poor. By which I mean that the shelves in the stores are mostly empty. It's a true nightmare, as Iv'e heard from someone who lived there.

So the choice facing the Pres was: Do you give the country back to the mafia, or leave it with the Communists, who the vast majority of Cubans supported at the time? JFK was anti mafia [a long story in itself], so he opted to let the Communists keep it.

Would you call off the air support? If you don't call it off, you've basically invaded another country, and you don't want to do that.

yes

If you call it off, thousands of anti-Castro Cubans will die,

Who entered into a shooting battle of their own free will. I didn't send them there, did I?

and you will have aided, in some sense, a Communist dictator.

Who the people wanted.

And even if they didn't, the choice they had was slaves of the mafia or slaves of Castro. All the glorification of gangsters notwithstanding, the latter is a slightly better choice.

What would you do?

You know my answer by now.

Re: Bay of Pigs

Felipe — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:29:31 GMT

I would have ordered the air support, something deep inside tells me that leaving a genocidal socialist dictator in power is not proceeding ever more boldly against evil.

Re: Bay of Pigs

Marko — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:20:38 GMT

E. R. Olovetto:

Read Block's recent "Is There an 'Anomalous' Section of the Laffer Curve?"

Great stuff. Thanks for linking.

I don't think it backs up your solution to the OP's answer though. As the president your first duty is to try not to provoke a war with Cuba and with the Soviet Union. So as the president you should call of the air support and do everything you can to convince Castro that this was not sanctioned by you. So by Block's thesis I would say you actually have more reason to order the air support to help out the Castro's forces than to keep them on their present mission.

Re: Bay of Pigs

Marko — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:17:39 GMT

Order the air support to pound your military officials.

Re: Bay of Pigs

E. R. Olovetto — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:32:22 GMT

I don't see how this would all somehow go down without Mr. Libertarian Prez knowing, but I would keep on the air strike I think. Read Block's recent "Is There an 'Anomalous' Section of the Laffer Curve?"

Bay of Pigs

JAlanKatz — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:26:10 GMT

So, this question occurred to me last night. I'm not sure it's what happened, but pretend for a minute, just to get to the question. Suppose you were President, and without your agreement, you found out that your military officials had trained a group of Cubans to invade and defeat Castro, and that presently, those Cubans were invading, with American air support. As a non-interventionist, you are horrified. Would you call off the air support? If you don't call it off, you've basically invaded another country, and you don't want to do that. If you call it off, thousands of anti-Castro Cubans will die, and you will have aided, in some sense, a Communist dictator. What would you do?