Political Theory

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

Wibee — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:41:35 GMT

The government has it perfect. Keep the poor poor, so they only concentrate on their Id, their immediate sustenance. Bribe the rich with incentives so Big business performs better with government involved. Overall, increase government dependence. Government jobs. Create boogeymen, like villifying big business, so semi-rich small businesses and middle class focus their energy on them. Then there are other boogeymen like terrorism and communism that are used as patriotism boosters. Creating problems to justify the government's existence.

Saying all this I feel like I'll be abducted in a black van in the middle of the night.

mikachusetts:

PorpoiseMuffins:

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my question. A better way to phrase it is this: If anarchy works, then how is it that we don't have it?

I think I also answered that question. The people in power have no reason to give it up. Educating the other 90% is hard. Getting them to agree that they have been lied to is even harder. Getting them to do something about it is near impossible.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

wilderness — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:13:40 GMT

ricarpe:
The Irish did. The cartoon 'The Jetsons' is based upon tales of how advanced Irish society used to be. Then they invented whiskey....

lol

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

ricarpe — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:05:11 GMT

wilderness:

PorpoiseMuffins:
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my question. A better way to phrase it is this: If anarchy works, then how is it that we don't have it?

If a computer works so well, then why didn't people have it in 300 B.C.?

The Irish did. The cartoon 'The Jetsons' is based upon tales of how advanced Irish society used to be. Then they invented whiskey....

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

wilderness — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:42:05 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my question. A better way to phrase it is this: If anarchy works, then how is it that we don't have it?

If a computer works so well, then why didn't people have it in 300 B.C.?

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

mikachusetts — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:32:28 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my question. A better way to phrase it is this: If anarchy works, then how is it that we don't have it?

I think I also answered that question. The people in power have no reason to give it up. Educating the other 90% is hard. Getting them to agree that they have been lied to is even harder. Getting them to do something about it is near impossible.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

PorpoiseMuffins — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:01:16 GMT

mikachusetts:

PorpoiseMuffins:

If anarchy works, then why don't we have it?

Is this to say that democracy works? I would say the reasons that a market society would work so well is exactly why we don't have one. Welfare lovers, warmongers, tax parasites, etc. would not prosper. Large corporations who could very well succeed, have built in incentives to accept state largess and bailout policies. They can lobby the govt to receive special benefits, which is probably a better use of capital than to promote a libertarian society in which their fate is uncertain.

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding my question. A better way to phrase it is this: If anarchy works, then how is it that we don't have it?

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

mikachusetts — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:54:51 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

If anarchy works, then why don't we have it?

Is this to say that democracy works? I would say the reasons that a market society would work so well is exactly why we don't have one. Welfare lovers, warmongers, tax parasites, etc. would not prosper. Large corporations who could very well succeed, have built in incentives to accept state largess and bailout policies. They can lobby the govt to receive special benefits, which is probably a better use of capital than to promote a libertarian society in which their fate is uncertain.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

von Vodka — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:38:52 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

So, if I understand correctly, for a stable and sustainable anarchist society to exist, the majority of its public would have to understand the advantages of it and be on board with it. Which, interestingly, sounds very similar to what would occur under an educated minarchist democracy.

"Not the majority, only the natural elites would and they would have to ensure not to allow one to seize power over the others."

Are you sure about that? The way I understand it, as I think has been explained by Hoppe, is that the incentive structure under ancap would be such that would not permit any type of monopolist to come into existence. That is, even if the majority wanted to create a state, it couldn't be done.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

Nielsio — Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:34 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

Nielsio:

If plasma TVs are so great, why didn't we have them before?

Because we hadn't reached that stage of understanding and industrial maturity yet.

I was hoping someone would say something like that. Do you think that we're anywhere near that stage of understanding yet?

It's a little difficult to say, but we can see that humanity is growing up fast. We've entered the age of information and people's skepticism and rational self-organization is ripping up the status quo at a faster pace than ever before.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

Spideynw — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:15:45 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:
If anarchy works, then why don't we have it? How have governments come into existence?

It is the one market failure.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

PorpoiseMuffins — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:08:09 GMT

AJ:

PorpoiseMuffins:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but in my (very limited) study of anarchy, I've yet to hear it addressed:

If anarchy works, then why don't we have it? How have governments come into existence?

If I understand correctly, anarchists believe that anarchy would prevent any individual or organization from gaining large scale coercive power. Yet surely at some point in early human history it was the case that there was no government--and government still formed and has been forming ever since.

See the detailed discussion in this thread and this article.

Thanks for the links. What I've read so far is great.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

PorpoiseMuffins — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:51:51 GMT

Stranger:

PorpoiseMuffins:

Alright, let's do it then. Colony on Antarctica, anyone?

I already have a home. I'm staying here.

Party pooper :P

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

Stranger — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:37:26 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

Alright, let's do it then. Colony on Antarctica, anyone?

I already have a home. I'm staying here.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

AJ — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:32:45 GMT

PorpoiseMuffins:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but in my (very limited) study of anarchy, I've yet to hear it addressed:

If anarchy works, then why don't we have it? How have governments come into existence?

If I understand correctly, anarchists believe that anarchy would prevent any individual or organization from gaining large scale coercive power. Yet surely at some point in early human history it was the case that there was no government--and government still formed and has been forming ever since.

See the detailed discussion in this thread and this article.

Re: Basic Anarchy Question

PorpoiseMuffins — Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:28:35 GMT

Stranger:

PorpoiseMuffins:

I was hoping someone would say something like that. Do you think that we're anywhere near that stage of understanding yet?

The very fact that we are having this conversion through the medium we are having it shows that we are.

Alright, let's do it then. Colony on Antarctica, anyone?