Political Theory

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Caley McKibbin — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:28:21 GMT

DD5:

Caley McKibbin:

Grayson Lilburne:
Giles is an ex-Hoppean; he's read the book.

Is he an ex-Austrian? I may not have been on the forum for long enough.

You have to actually understand some Austrian economics to be an ex-Austrian.

What is a Hoppean, then?

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

DD5 — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:27:48 GMT

Caley McKibbin:

Grayson Lilburne:
Giles is an ex-Hoppean; he's read the book.

Is he an ex-Austrian? I may not have been on the forum for long enough.

You have to actually understand some Austrian economics to be an ex-Austrian.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

I. Ryan — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:30:00 GMT

Conza88:

The Trouble With Democracy - Walter Block (review)

Thanks.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

I. Ryan — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:27:55 GMT

Caley McKibbin:

E. R. Olovetto:

QFT.

Giles, what is the second word on the 6th line of the footnote on page 141?

Waiting... if he doesn't answer this, I say ban.

What the hell? You guys are being really lame.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

E. R. Olovetto — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:32:47 GMT

Caley McKibbin:

Grayson Lilburne:
Giles is an ex-Hoppean; he's read the book.

Is he an ex-Austrian? I may not have been on the forum for long enough.

I lurked here since maybe about a year ago. I've never seen the Hoppe in him. I would say similar criticisms of Giles apply as from the recent review here of Caplan by Block and in his paper about the Laffer Curve, which contains a polemic on the quasi-retreating-for-even-using-the-moniker-Austrian GMU crowd. If Giles has ever read the book, he still has said nothing of substance. We just hold "scholars" to a much lower standard here than on other fora. I guarantee you that Giles or JLR couldn't make it to 100 posts acting like this on certain others. I'm over it.

Esuric, I had problems downloading that audio and it only played about 18 minutes, sputtering and garbled, but I got the drift of it. Really, what I was talking about was some papers about "public goods" Giles couldn't address. I'll admit that I am not familiar with the 2 authors Giles mentioned. I did some research on it and what was first mentioned was homo economicus. So, that was what I was dismissing out of hand. Still, I think there are some articles around about the problem with "public choice" as others alluded to.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Conza88 — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:30:22 GMT

Caley McKibbin:
Is he an ex-Austrian?

Think GMU. "Coordination Problem Economists". I previously asked him if he too, now calls himself that - but didn't get a response. lol

Anyway, I'm still yet to buy it - although my uni library has it!

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Caley McKibbin — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:17:31 GMT

Grayson Lilburne:
Giles is an ex-Hoppean; he's read the book.

Is he an ex-Austrian? I may not have been on the forum for long enough.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Daniel James Sanchez — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 05:45:47 GMT

Caley McKibbin:

E. R. Olovetto:

QFT.

Giles, what is the second word on the 6th line of the footnote on page 141?

Waiting... if he doesn't answer this, I say ban.

Giles is an ex-Hoppean; he's read the book. And anyway, nobody's getting banned for not having a particular book at hand.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Conza88 — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:03:52 GMT

I. Ryan:

hayekianxyz:

Sure, it's called The Myth of the Rational Voter and it is written by Bryan Caplan.

Cool, I just ordered it.

The Trouble With Democracy - Walter Block (review)

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

AJ — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:46:25 GMT

Such a cheerful bunch we are today

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Caley McKibbin — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:36:38 GMT

E. R. Olovetto:

QFT.

Giles, what is the second word on the 6th line of the footnote on page 141?

Waiting... if he doesn't answer this, I say ban.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Caley McKibbin — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:26:19 GMT

Esuric:
If Hoppe is indeed supporting social darwinism

That is a crazy accusation.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

DBratton — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 02:01:56 GMT

Jackson LaRose:

Sparta and Akkad did not continue after one king, even one dynasty?

Not in the political sense, no. Anyone in prison was set free. Any laws enacted by the old king became void. You get the idea.

Jackson LaRose:

Who determines how much one individual can administer?

Physics. This isn't an abstract restriction. Bureaucracies can enable a ruler to govern territories and institutions that no single man could ever have managed, but at the price that the ruler is now dependent on the bureaucracy.

Jackson LaRose:

Every ruler governs within defined territories. Your example seems to confirm this.

When a feudal knight traveled from one kingdom to another his obligations did not change. The laws of a modern state end at its border (though the US government seems determines to escape this limitation).

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

DD5 — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:18:47 GMT

Esuric:
Public choice theory is perfectly compatible with Austrian economics (praxeology), and it's a very powerful argument against democracy. Listen to this.

It is powerful but not as powerful as it can be. The public choice theory sort of accepts the premise of the theoretical existence of such a thing as a collective policy or even the notion of the "public good", and then proceeds to show why the goals are not likely to be achieved due to all sort of problems associated with incentives. The arguments from what I've heard are indeed sound, at least most of them.

But it overlooks the possibility that the premise itself of the existence of a collective policy is completely fallacious and purely mystical in nature. It is not possible even in theory to benefit society as a whole due to the fact that all public/government policies are economically zero-sum games. One can benefit only by somebody else loosing. The political system is inherently exploitative regardless of the incentives and how informed voters are.

Re: Democracy: The God That Failed

Jon Irenicus — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:57:43 GMT

You could even attribute a crude version of his argument to Friedman re government not spending its own money, nevermind Mises or the Virginia School. His core premise doesn't seem as potent as the Austrian case against democracy; at best, supplementary.