Political Theory

Re: Practical Agorism

MacFall — Sun, 11 May 2008 00:36:19 GMT

ViennaSausage:

Are there any other symbols besides these?

The backwards dollar sign is used by people around here, I don't know how widespread it is.

There are also the libertatis aequilibritas:

The voluntarist "V for Voluntary":

The anarcho-capitalist banner:

The emblem of the Alliance of the Libertarian Left:

Also suggested are the Gadsden flag and the Jolly Roger.

Re: Practical Agorism

ViennaSausage — Sat, 10 May 2008 20:06:52 GMT

minorgrey:
Some people put up symbols in their business that an agorist would notice; others just have a sign saying they accept liberty dollars.

Are there any other symbols besides these?

Re: Practical Agorism

ViennaSausage — Sat, 10 May 2008 07:22:43 GMT

maxpot46:
Like, I need a haircut, where do I go to find a tax-free transaction?

Not necessarily for haircuts, but for tax-free transactions, find a CPA, preferablly versed in Austrian Economics.

Re: Practical Agorism

MacFall — Sat, 10 May 2008 03:27:23 GMT

For those who are trying to "find" a counter-economic network, I think they will have to be the ones to build a better mousetrap. If you can't find it, it either isn't there or doesn't want to be found.

Some friends and I brew our own beer, and we don't take government money. We advertise by using a libertatis æquilibritas in our price symbol. We vet our customers very carefully - if we don't trust someone, or if they aren't willing to trade, we just "don't have any right now".

It turns out that there was already an agorist community in our area (though neglected and unorganized), who saw our symbol and asked about it - and now we have a market. There are some 30 of us who are aware of each other, spread around the Western half of Pennsylvania. We don't have a self-sustaining counter-economic cell, but it's a necessary first step.

Also, there are some farmers and craftsmen around here who use a backwards dollar sign to indicate their willingness to barter.

What you can do right now besides use subtle hints of your intent is just ask people if they are willing to barter. If they are, great. If they aren't, there probably millions of other people around you. Amongst those who barter there are certain to be a few people who don't trust the state, and every one of those is a potential ally.

Re: Practical Agorism

Geoffrey Allan Plauché — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:46:27 GMT

ViennaSausage:
So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

Blanchard Online usually has good prices for bullion. I bought a few coins from them.

Re: Practical Agorism

Geoffrey Allan Plauché — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:42:43 GMT

Ego:

What happens to a gold standard once we figure out how to create gold?

Then some other commodity would likely emerge as money.

Re: Practical Agorism

Ego — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:33:38 GMT

What happens to a gold standard once we figure out how to create gold?

Re: Practical Agorism

histhasthai — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:31:08 GMT

ViennaSausage:

So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

If you want to buy it anonymously, your local coin store - cash only - or someone you know who has some. Coin stores, at least where I live, bid/ask about 80 cents to $1 under/over spot for silver, and maybe $30-$50 for gold. Slightly higher as a percentage for junk coins. That may be changing, as many shops are finding themselves overwhelmed by demand.

If you don't care about anonymity, the lowest premium way is probably to go directly to the New York or London or Dubai spot market (if they even allow individual buyers, I don't know), or to buy a 100-ounce gold or 5000-ounce silver futures contract on the commodities exchange and take delivery. If that is outside your budget (and it probably is, or you wouldn't need to be asking here), there's plenty of places that sell bullion and junk coins online that have relatively low premiums. Ebay is another place to sometimes find prices including shipping pretty close to spot (with some higher risk involved).

LD's premiums aren't outrageous, but the RP dollars in particular have a higher premium than generally available for bullion, even at the local coin store.

Re: Practical Agorism

ViennaSausage — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:11:29 GMT

histhasthai:
Depends on your definition of "legit".

Legit in the sense it is the correct site. From my understanding, it looks as though the Liberty Dollar and the eLibertyDollar do not fall under section 486 (depending on who is the judge perhaps).

histhasthai:
Unless you just want an overpriced piece of silver with Ron Paul's picture on it.

So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

Re: Practical Agorism

histhasthai — Fri, 09 May 2008 23:00:41 GMT

ViennaSausage:

What is the website for the liberty dollar?

Just want to make sure this is legit.

Depends on your definition of "legit". The two most common definitions are mutually exclusive. Those who try to be legit by both definitions simultaneously end up in court with their bullion confiscated and their customers exposed.

If you meant is the URL the legit URL for the well-known Liberty Dollar organization, I think it is, but I can't be sure. I am sure that it no longer matters. Unless you just want an overpriced piece of silver with Ron Paul's picture on it.

Re: Practical Agorism

Geoffrey Allan Plauché — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:59:56 GMT

Wasn't LibertyDollar raided by the feds not long ago? I'm not sure it's safe to do business with them. Or was it another gold currency company that this happened to?

Re: Practical Agorism

minorgrey — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:54:35 GMT

ViennaSausage:

What is the website for the liberty dollar? Anyone actually have any?

A google search yields this: https://www.libertydollar.org

Just want to make sure this is legit.

yup, that's it

Re: Practical Agorism

histhasthai — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:35:25 GMT

maxpot46:
I would have expected some kind of functioning counter-economy, maybe some lingo or something.

How do you know there's not? Unless you're already directly involved in a counter-economy network, the most likely way to hear about one is from the news coverage of the arrests and trials. The mob is one, though perhaps not consciously so, and not the most shining example in any case. The ones your looking for are the same ones you're least likely to have heard about.

maxpot46:
I didn't realize I was supposed to build my own agorist network.

That's the whole point of Agorism, isn't it?

maxpot46:
I'm looking for a way to facilitate tax-free transactions.

The way is to start doing them with whomever will agree to it. I'm really not sure what else you are looking for. If it's public enough to be just a link away, it's probably not Agorist. If it's organized, it's probably not Agorist.

The thing you have to accept when seeking statelessness is that you're on your own, and any help, assistance, or community you may wish to have has to be built or acquired, just like anything else of value. And in today's context, that generally means built, because everyone is starting nearly from scratch, and doing it in relative secrecy. When that is no longer true, then Agorism will no longer be a movement, it will just be.

Re: Practical Agorism

ViennaSausage — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:18:20 GMT

What is the website for the liberty dollar? Anyone actually have any?

A google search yields this: https://www.libertydollar.org

Just want to make sure this is legit.

Re: Practical Agorism

Geoffrey Allan Plauché — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:45:25 GMT

maxpot46:

So being new to this whole Agorism idea, I have a serious question. Is there some kind of list of agorist businesses? Like, I need a haircut, where do I go to find a tax-free transaction?

As well as being happy to play the consumer in a tax-free transaction, I also run a business which is about to reach the sales stage. Is there some kind of code-word or something used to indicate a willingness to make such transactions? Like "Thanks for visiting NYC Volcano, your agorist-friendly vaporizer purveyor"?

It's not a business yet but check out Gil Guillory's research into the viability of a subscription-based patrol and restitution service. We need more private security firms like this as well as private arbitration and mediation services (which are all booming industries, btw).