Political Theory

Re: IP and plagarism

Clayton — Wed, 12 May 2010 19:37:11 GMT

Plagiarism is unethical and indecorous behavior but it's not a crime.

Clayton -

Re: IP and plagarism

MaikU — Wed, 12 May 2010 15:45:45 GMT

What he^ said

Re: IP and plagarism

Skyler Collins — Wed, 12 May 2010 14:10:22 GMT

@ Joe, if you haven't, be sure to read Walter Block's "Defending the Undefendable". Magnificent book. Chapter 7 looks at Libelers and Slanderers.

http://mises.org/books/defending.pdf

More of an answer to your question, I think it's just a matter of gullibility. The public would be less gullible in a free society, for the reasons Block explains. Social ostracism for the frequent libelers and slanderers would be enough of a "punishment" for what is really an act of free speech.

Re: IP and plagarism

cret — Wed, 12 May 2010 07:14:28 GMT

consumer advocacy groups and those interested in the furtherance of true artists and art endeavores could easily offer certified patronage and authenticity schemes.

this has been discussed at lenght here.

Re: IP and plagarism

cret — Wed, 12 May 2010 07:11:55 GMT

if you copy a work and say this is a work by so and so...then it is a work (copying) by so and so.

if you claim to author something (mental formulation of concepts, dialoges, fictional names etc) and didnt that would be a lie.

but the purchaser still has a story that they felt worth getting in pring or digital form.

action contracts, direct patronage schemes and real goods producers putting artists on various types of retainers would probably repalce current ip laws.

Re: IP and plagarism

Joe — Wed, 12 May 2010 06:05:48 GMT

on a different note, but sort of similar I guess: how would slander and libel be treated in a free society? My initial feeling is that no crime has been committed, and its just a matter of putting out a counter message and people choosing to trust more trustworthy sources. Does anything feel differently?

Re: IP and plagarism

Skyler Collins — Tue, 11 May 2010 19:37:59 GMT

Scott F. -

1. how would th customer find out that it isn't my work?

I imagine some of this responsibility would be on vendors. A vendor known for selling plagiarized works, if consumers really cared (see below), would suffer losses. It would be in their best interest to use some sort of private certification company who guarantees creatives works and their authors.

2. why would they care who really created the work? It might bother them they had been lied to but other than that I see no reason for them to pursue the matter.

They might not care, in which case there's no complaint. It would be up to the buyer of the plaigarized work to "cry fraud." They may be only motivated enough to let the vendor know they've sold plagiarized work and let it end there, or return it for a refund of their money. I'm sure they could find the real author via the Internet if they were that interested.

This hardly justifies IP and, as has been stated, is really just a red herring.

Re: IP and plagarism

AnonLLF — Tue, 11 May 2010 19:16:13 GMT

Nielsio:

With the use of stickers and codes and agencies that register things. This already exists today to a certain degree. And to the extent that governments do this, this function can be decentralized just as well.

I like this idea.Can you explain what you mean a little bit more?

how would this work in the case of books or cd's?

Re: IP and plagarism

AnonLLF — Tue, 11 May 2010 19:13:29 GMT

Skyler Collins:

Plagiarism is a form of fraud. If I take someone else's work, claim to be the author, and someone buys it based on that claim, or believing I am the author, then I have misrepresented my good and comitted fraud. The buyer would then have a justifed case against me to be settled by a judge, as would anyone else defrauded in any other way in the market.

this sounds sensible.It also avoids problems of claiming plagarism is theft by explaining that the theft and fraud is in the trade of plagarised work not in plagarism of it itself.

A few problems straight away though.

1. how would th customer find out that it isn't my work?

2. why would they care who really created the work? It might bother them they had been lied to but other than that I see no reason for them to pursue the matter.

Re: IP and plagarism

E. R. Olovetto — Tue, 11 May 2010 18:50:11 GMT

Plagiarism is a form of fraud. If I take someone else's work, claim to be the author, and someone buys it based on that claim, or believing I am the author, then I have misrepresented my good and comitted fraud. The buyer would then have a justifed case against me to be settled by a judge, as would anyone else defrauded in any other way in the market.

A plagiarized work could be sold fraudulently, but I would say that the vast majority of instances called plagiarism are not instances of fraud. It seems like the key usually would be "claiming to be the author".

Re: IP and plagarism

MaikU — Tue, 11 May 2010 17:24:53 GMT

the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work.

what's wrong with plagiarism? How can you steal that do not exist? Ok, suppose it's true and it's a form of fraud... then how it can be enforeced without violating other peoples "rights"?

Plagiarism is red herring.

Re: IP and plagarism

Sieben — Tue, 11 May 2010 14:47:58 GMT

You know I can follow the logic of kinsella, and maybe i disagree with it, whatever. But I can't see why adherants to IP can't just concede all the property-rights points to us, and then simply say that IP ought to be sold along with a contract that disalows copying/distributing. You can't persecute people who haven't signed the contract (downloaders), but you can go after the distributers (buyers)

Re: IP and plagarism

Nielsio — Tue, 11 May 2010 14:36:13 GMT

With the use of stickers and codes and agencies that register things. This already exists today to a certain degree. And to the extent that governments do this, this function can be decentralized just as well.

Re: IP and plagarism

Skyler Collins — Tue, 11 May 2010 14:03:44 GMT

Plagiarism is a form of fraud. If I take someone else's work, claim to be the author, and someone buys it based on that claim, or believing I am the author, then I have misrepresented my good and comitted fraud. The buyer would then have a justifed case against me to be settled by a judge, as would anyone else defrauded in any other way in the market.

IP and plagarism

AnonLLF — Tue, 11 May 2010 08:29:20 GMT

I am a strict critic of IP following from the arguments of Kinsella and others but how would a libertarian society without IP prevent plagarism?