Political Theory

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Jackson — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:56:44 GMT

Is there an atheist here who thinks homosexuality is a choice?

the preference is not. the action is...

just as heterosexuality is not a choice but the act of engaging in sex is (relevant to the celibate, those 'waiting for marriage', those in monogomous relationships who turn down the honry babysitter, etc.).

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Jackson — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:52:58 GMT

This is about property rights and consistency. I can't believe you're making this strategic stuff up to defend aggression.

what aggression are you talking about?

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Jackson — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:48:37 GMT

Esuric,

Richard Dawkins, the world's most famous evolutionary biologist, has some evolutionary theories regarding homosexuality he'd like to share with you.

this is a sad, sad day for the LvMI forums.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Jackson — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:41:55 GMT

The gays can then just arm themselves and shoot the bigots in their faces.

*sigh*

shooting people for rolling their eyes at musical theatre? civilzation at its finest.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Jackson — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:34:55 GMT

This is implying that homosexuality is something that can be advocated, i.e. that it is a choice.

I'm a heterosexual who is attracted to thin and beautiful women. this is not a choice...yet I can advocate the value of my desires to others who prefer 'thick' (read: fat) women, men, etc.

Also, how is 'nature-environment worship' incompatible with a family society?

ever hear about the 'carbon footprint of a person' applied to population control? I have.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Southern — Sat, 29 May 2010 04:16:58 GMT

Is there an atheist here who thinks homosexuality is a choice?

How is this relevant to what anyone here has said? Religion has nothing to do with this.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Praetyre — Sat, 29 May 2010 03:15:18 GMT

Ayn Rand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_and_homosexuality#Moral_views

I find it ironic how the Kinseyian crowd calls everyone who disagrees with them intolerant and bigoted (which brings to mind this) and yet treat any questioning of their "Homosexuality is set in stone" dogma like AGWers treat questioners of the Gospel of Gore.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Esuric — Sat, 29 May 2010 00:25:51 GMT

Is there an atheist here who thinks homosexuality is a choice?

Do you think there's a correlation between atheism and bad science?

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Nielsio — Sat, 29 May 2010 00:07:24 GMT

Is there an atheist here who thinks homosexuality is a choice?

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Bert — Fri, 28 May 2010 23:27:27 GMT

You're being definitional. Clearly what I meant with sacred was un-touchable. People who believe that version could not separate it politically.

In other words, if you're a libertarian, then you cannot hold the fish and the trees as un-touchable.

Un-touchable for yourself or everyone? Can you not hold something sacred and respect other people's political views? It might be rare, but I can believe there is someone who's a libertarian based on the N.A.P. and having a free-market stance, yet not partaking in activities that the person see's as violating what's sacred.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

DanielMuff — Fri, 28 May 2010 18:43:55 GMT

Nielso: "... And if you're going to revisit this topic you'd better be sure you're doing it right "

Do it right?

"... and not simply defending a decades old bad view"

Because the newer the better?

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Southern — Fri, 28 May 2010 17:48:13 GMT

Southern wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoge

That is pedophilia, not homosexuality. Hoppe wasn't arguing against pedophilia but against homosexuality and it's "advocacy". Again: homosexuality is not something people advocate or choose, it is something that people biologically are.

By todays standards yes, however in ancient greece it was not. Boy of 15 o16 was seen as a man. It is totally relevent to what we are discussing. Were these practices widespread because of some predisposition or because of a differing culture concerning sex.

It is also relevent that many of these relationships continued into adulthood. It was common for soldiers of the time to engage in homosexual relationships while on campaign. This would be totally unthinkable in our society.

It seems that the permissive sexual culture of ancient greece allowed for the widespread practice of homosexuality, bisexuality, and peophillia (your description, not mine) (I am also not equating these acts with one another).

Also to be clear I am not trying to show that all homosexuality is a choice. Only that historicly there is evidence that culture can affect the sexual preferences of the people in society.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

DD5 — Fri, 28 May 2010 16:22:58 GMT

Ensuric:

Actually, this book sounds awesome. Thanks.

Here's a pretty good interview with the author also:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3554279466299738997#

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Sieben — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:43:38 GMT

I think by homosexuality hoppe just means people with the same junk that are attracted to one another.

Re: Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles

Nielsio — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:40:59 GMT

Remember: I didn't bring this stuff up. If it were lost to the times and forgotten that would be fine by me. But Daniel brought it up here, and Stephan brought it up on Libertarian Standard. And if you're going to revisit this topic you'd better be sure you're doing it right and not simply defending a decades old bad view.