Political Theory

Re: Plato

nirgrahamUK — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 01:46:58 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q34MHpBu0Oo&

Plato - 3 minute philosophy

Re: Plato

Consultant — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:51:44 GMT

Great comics, I enjoyed them.

Re: Plato

Alex Habighorst — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:10:47 GMT

Excellent, thank you. During the semester, depending on the topics I will try to write my perspectie of some events from a Misesian prospective, and will probably post on the forum or soething to see how well my analysis of events holds up.

Re: Plato

Daniel James Sanchez — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:01:10 GMT

It appears that the books for the class are Hesiod's Theogony Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, Apuleius' Golden Ass, The Republic, Selected letters of Cicero, The Odyssey, Ceaser's Gallic War and what looks like some standard textbooks on the era.

Alex,

Attached is a monograph I wrote on the Theogony. And here are several comics I created which explore the work from a Misesian perspective. Also, here's a post I wrote regarding the Nichomachean Ethics and its relation to libertarian eudaimonism. Hope these help you prepare for your course.

Re: Plato

Alex Habighorst — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:53:48 GMT

It appears that the books for the class are Hesiod's Theogony Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, Apuleius' Golden Ass, The Republic, Selected letters of Cicero, The Odyssey, Ceaser's Gallic War and what looks like some standard textbooks on the era.

Re: Plato

Paul — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:55:00 GMT

Grayson Lilburne:
Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound is also fun to "look through from a libertarianesque eye".

It's not Aeschylus, though. Maybe Euphorion.

Re: Plato

Paul — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:50:19 GMT

Dondoolee:
Also what helps isLearning basic classical Greek grammar structure and 1000 or so vocab words wouldn't hurt either.

That's a pretty big ask if you're not going to go the whole way and learn the language. (1000 vocab words...would just about cover the conjugation of one verb )

Re: Plato

William — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:13:42 GMT

The Zoroastrian reference was made only due to two intsances I know of. They both involve Platonists expecting the Sassnids to be the "Philosopher King" that the Byzantine Empire was not to them and leaving to Persia, only to be bitterly disappointed (I'll check for the specifics if you want). That said my statement could be contradicted now that I think of it, as Mani (Manichesianism) was in Zoroastrian country and came from a Zoroastrian background.

I could have sworn Ibn Sina (Avincenna) and Ibn Khaldun were Aristotelian, at leat to a certain degree ( Ibn Sina's medical work for example).

Pletho I don't know about, though I am aware of the reintroduction of Greek to Italy due to the fall of Constantinople. Platonism certainly existed (to what extent I don't know, the info out there is scant) I was talking about theological battles and the views of formal Christian dogma.

Despite Augustine's (an ex-Manichean) genius, he was unfortunatly isolated from the intellectual happenings of his time (plus he didn't know Greek). The West simply didn't have much going on at the time, it was lucky to have Augustine.

Anyway, I'm going to bed

Re: Plato

Daniel James Sanchez — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:45:40 GMT

When the west forgot how to read Greek after the collapse of Roman society, it still retained Plato's Timeaus (one of his most wonky dialogues), as well as Aristotle's Organon via Boethius' Latin translations. But most of Plato's influence on the early Middle Ages was indirect via Boethius's enormously popular Consolation of Philosophy, and the writings of St. Augustine which were heavily influenced by the Neoplatonism of Plotinus).

You probably know more about Byzantine history than I do, but I do know there was a Byzantine scholar named "Pletho" who chose his name because it sounded like the name of his hero Plato. Pletho played a huge role in introducing Platonism and Neoplatonism to the west, triggering the Platonic phase of Italian Renaissance Humanism, which in turn was responsible for most of the Latin translations of Plato's work.

For all I know you may be right about the Zoroastrians, but Islamic philosophers al-Farabi, Avicenna, and especially al-Kindi were influenced by Neoplatonism. Although it's true that Aristotle may very well have been the dominant western influence on Falsafa.

Re: Plato

William — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:24:28 GMT

Liburne,

I haven't read Prometheus Bound since High School, I'll have to give it a reread.

Was Plato always known to the West, or was he rediscovered along with Aristotle? It's odd, because contrary to popular belief, the East actually vehemently fought against Neo-Platonism and actually accepted Aristotelian materialism (to a degree anyway). Plato wasn't seen as a particularly positive thing to the Byzantines (nor the Muslims or Persian Zoroastrians).

Lol, I think I remember you being a Bach fan too. I guess you represent the correct taste for the West Coast.

EDIT: Last sentence

Re: Plato

Daniel James Sanchez — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:21:43 GMT

Dondoolee,

Hey we have similar tastes. Tacitus is my favorite Roman historian and Ovid my favorite Roman poet too. :)

Re: Plato

Alex Habighorst — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:17:28 GMT

I very much agree, though my knowledge of Plato was more limited when haing this discussion. While I was better versed in Aristotle (Politics, Ethics and a small bit of Metaphysics) I did not know my Plato well enough to make better arguments, as my only Plato comes from bits of The Republic and Meno. Though I took History of Western philosophy from a professor very much an Aristotelean and I didn't pay as much attention as I would now. Though the above passage seems like exactly what I was looking for. Thank you quite a bit.

Re: Plato

Daniel James Sanchez — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:16:27 GMT

Alex,

Ovid's Metamorphoses is a lush and wonderful read, and is also a great intro to some classic myths.

The Peloponnesian War/Cold War comparison is often made, and I think there's a lot to be said for it.

Re: Plato

William — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:15:09 GMT

Ovid is awsome, one of my favorite authors, and easily my favorite Latin poet (for me he works best if you see him as a mock epic poet).

That may not be a bad way to look at Sparta from a modernist perspective. By the intellectuals own words trying to glorify Sparta, they would say things along the lines of, to look at the city you would not think it wealthy, etc. Sparta was a sham (and much of the image was mythology) that still gets glorified to this day. In a way it is somewhat of the 1st flavor of crazy idealism that would dominate the west milleniums later, all style and no substance.

The best "Spartan flavored" Historian I can think of is Xenophon, while not a Spartan, he seemed to have Spartan sympathies. He is a good and enganging writer non the less though. There is not much primary sources for Sparta that I am aware of though. which in and of itself is telling.

Re: Plato

Daniel James Sanchez — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:12:56 GMT

Dondoolee,

Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound is also fun to "look through from a libertarianesque eye".