Political Theory

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

meambobbo — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:59:40 GMT

Well, I think Harrison had a sweet beard, but that wasn't exactly a perfect presidency: http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3203068.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=C037F202D99E309937BAE22F5277B6DEA55A1E4F32AD3138

But you are right: RP would DEMAND respect with a grizzly flavor savor. On that note, might be time to let mine get finger length again.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

JohnSchreimann — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:39:55 GMT

I admit that I would actually be tempted to vote at all if Ron Paul grew a beard like one of the following: Spooner, Hess, or Tolstoy (or myself!). Haha.

I think this campaign season has definitely proved the point in No Treason about unaccountability and the Constitution having no authority. Though, as I said... Ron's always said that he has always had extremely low standards. I doubt he is surprised by the revelation that No Treason holds more truth today than even then.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

liberty student — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:54:06 GMT

He's brought up Spooner several times, I am sure he did it on Cavuto. How many statists mention Lysander Spooner as a "hero"?

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

Ramone — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:31:02 GMT

Here is my 2 cents.

I too got the impression he has some anarcho-capitalist leanings. When I hear him speak, I sometimes get the feeling that he's only pretending to be a strict Constitutionalist to get elected. After all, do you think anyone could win an election if their platform was strictly anarcho-capitalist? Of course not. Also I once heard him mention Spooner, someone statists don't tend to mention.

I voted for him because I think he is far better than anyone else running. I think if he were in office that he would actually reduce the size of government. I don't agree with him on every issue. But I'd rather have someone in office that decreases the size of government, even if it is by a small amount, than someone who helps the governement to grow even more.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

Brainpolice — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:37:38 GMT

ChaseCola:

Chris:

I was intially introduced to the concept of liberty through the Ron Paul campaign. So while I am very grateful for his canidacy I no longer consider myself a supporter.

He is a very principled man in the sense that he follows the Constitution completely. However, as I'm sure many realized, the Constitution is not this great libertarian document by any means.

After reading Lysander Spooner's. " No Treason: The Constituion of No Authority". I soon realized that I could no longer be a Constiutionalist and be consistent with libertarinism.

I'm sure Ron Paul has a lot of respect for anarchists, but the fact that he spent the last 30 years in Congress means that he certaintly isn't one.

Some people including myself think he uses the Constitution because it is much more Libertarian than our government today and he can use it to be viable in politics, but he is really An-Cap in his core beliefs. He knew Rothbard and must of been aware of An-Cap and his rhetoric makes you wonder what his beliefs really are when you compare it to some of Rothbards rhetoric. This is all speculative of course but I have a gut feeling he is really An-Cap. Somebody needs to ask him if he is An-Cap. I demand it.

This claim that Ron Paul is a market anarchist makes no sense to me at all. His own position is clearly a constitutionalist/minarchist one. At a minimum, he definitely supports government provision of defense and arbitration. Beyond that, he also supports immigration restriction, governmental prohibitions on abortion and state's rights.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

ChaseCola — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:30:46 GMT

wombatron:

ChaseCola:

Some people including myself think he uses the Constitution because it is much more Libertarian than our government today and he can use it to be viable in politics, but he is really An-Cap in his core beliefs. He knew Rothbard and must of been aware of An-Cap and his rhetoric makes you wonder what his beliefs really are when you compare it to some of Rothbards rhetoric. This is all speculative of course but I have a gut feeling he is really An-Cap. Somebody needs to ask him if he is An-Cap. I demand it.

He'll say no. He is not an anarchist. He is a libertarian-leaning Constitutionalist/conservative.

On a side note, can't you just imagine the MSM outcry when/if they realize that Ron Paul keeps a picture of an anarchist and a secessionist on his wall.

Well my theory which is based on almost no evidence states that he uses the constitution because he knows he could not get support as an anarchist and he figures he is doing good for liberty by doing so.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

wombatron — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:50:44 GMT

ChaseCola:

Some people including myself think he uses the Constitution because it is much more Libertarian than our government today and he can use it to be viable in politics, but he is really An-Cap in his core beliefs. He knew Rothbard and must of been aware of An-Cap and his rhetoric makes you wonder what his beliefs really are when you compare it to some of Rothbards rhetoric. This is all speculative of course but I have a gut feeling he is really An-Cap. Somebody needs to ask him if he is An-Cap. I demand it.

He'll say no. He is not an anarchist. He is a libertarian-leaning Constitutionalist/conservative.

On a side note, can't you just imagine the MSM outcry when/if they realize that Ron Paul keeps a picture of an anarchist and a secessionist on his wall.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

meambobbo — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:41:36 GMT

Criticize Ron all you want, but he rules. I'm constitutionalist, conservative, libertarian, an-cap. Call it a contradiction. I don't care. Until I see a bigger difference between those things individually than them collectively compared to what we have, I'll gladly contradict myself. And I'll find more people willing to accept at least one of those philosophies in the mean time.

I won't lie. Ron re-awoke my political flame. He's the reason I'm ancap. Thus, if someone is opposed to ancap, it might be a GREAT F'IN idea to simply argue for something less radical. That might plant the seed that eventually leads to their support of ancap. If it at least sticks, it may help get a smaller state.

We need to look at things not only from good and bad but better and worse. Ultimate goals as a sole value of success is folly.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

kingmonkey — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 05:23:41 GMT

liberty student:

Brainpolice:

By the very least, the very fact that he's a politician would disqualify him as an agorist from the get go.

Agorists have this self righteous thing going on, where they feel that they are the only ideology of effectiveness, when agorism has never achieved it's goals, nor is there compelling proof that agorism will achieve it's goals.

And yes, Paul is definitely not an agorist. He doesn't work in the shadows, or avoid confronting statism head on.

I'm for any tactic that works and gives me more liberty. If libertarians can shrink the size of the State via the political process more power to them. If agorist can turn enough people around so they stop supporting the State more power to them. I think all tactics work in harmony with each other since they all share the same ultimate goal.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

Josiah Schmidt — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:19:13 GMT

"Those who say it cannot be done should not get in the way of those doing it." - Chinese Proverb

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

ChaseCola — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:01:20 GMT

Chris:

I was intially introduced to the concept of liberty through the Ron Paul campaign. So while I am very grateful for his canidacy I no longer consider myself a supporter.

He is a very principled man in the sense that he follows the Constitution completely. However, as I'm sure many realized, the Constitution is not this great libertarian document by any means.

After reading Lysander Spooner's. " No Treason: The Constituion of No Authority". I soon realized that I could no longer be a Constiutionalist and be consistent with libertarinism.

I'm sure Ron Paul has a lot of respect for anarchists, but the fact that he spent the last 30 years in Congress means that he certaintly isn't one.

Some people including myself think he uses the Constitution because it is much more Libertarian than our government today and he can use it to be viable in politics, but he is really An-Cap in his core beliefs. He knew Rothbard and must of been aware of An-Cap and his rhetoric makes you wonder what his beliefs really are when you compare it to some of Rothbards rhetoric. This is all speculative of course but I have a gut feeling he is really An-Cap. Somebody needs to ask him if he is An-Cap. I demand it.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

Chris — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:10:21 GMT

That's all well and good.

However. he has also inspired a group of people who have no problem with states banning drugs, or the right of people to contract...all in the name of states' rights.

As I said, I'm thankful for his campaign, but it has not been all positive.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

liberty student — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:05:34 GMT

LibertasMaximum:
I'm sure Ron Paul has a lot of respect for anarchists, but the fact that he spent the last 30 years in Congress means that he certaintly isn't one.

I heard that Ron Paul only became a Congress Man because Blogger wasn't invented yet. Who knows, if blogs had been around in the 70s, Paul might have started his own libertarian magazine and online community. He might be trading his home grown tomatoes for pot and haircuts like all good agorists.

Someone here wrote recently, "you're preaching to the choir". Paul doesn't preach to the choir. He plays the heretic. He's not trying to reach smug leftist purple bloggers. He's not trying to reach angry Nicky. He's trying to reach people who have been brainwashed by the state and not exposed to Bastiat, Rothbard, Mises etc.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

Chris — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:00:00 GMT

I was intially introduced to the concept of liberty through the Ron Paul campaign. So while I am very grateful for his canidacy I no longer consider myself a supporter.

He is a very principled man in the sense that he follows the Constitution completely. However, as I'm sure many realized, the Constitution is not this great libertarian document by any means.

After reading Lysander Spooner's. " No Treason: The Constituion of No Authority". I soon realized that I could no longer be a Constiutionalist and be consistent with libertarinism.

I'm sure Ron Paul has a lot of respect for anarchists, but the fact that he spent the last 30 years in Congress means that he certaintly isn't one.

Re: What is Ron Paul? And who supports him?

JohnSchreimann — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:01:21 GMT

I've not read up much on agorism. Though, I agree with brainpolice in that libertarians in politics is mostly a dead end. I've always been more interested in the economic and moral side of anarchism. RP took on a lot of individual issues and I liked what he had to say. His philosophy is more important than his great record in congress. He's like the opposite version of Milton Friedman. He's not an outsider sharing libertarian knowledge with the jerks in Washington who won't listen. He's on the inside and he's sharing it with all of the outsiders who will actually listen. See the way he used the media. It wasn't to influence foreign policy or the Fed in one way or another directly. I think he was really informing a lot of people about the foreign policy, about the Fed, etc. who were at home watching. So when it angered Giuliani and the establishment goons, he did not get frustrated or angry. Like he's said before "I've always just had really low standards."