Political Theory

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

Wheylous — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:23:23 GMT

I can't help but think that Libertopia would have a really ugly side full of wanton child pornography and 14 year old girls for sale.

And also drug addicts, heartless capitalists who don't help the poor, and general anarchy...

I think this thread was answered quite thoroughly and very satisfactorily. Go Libertarian squad!

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

DD5 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:15:55 GMT

DMI1:
I can't help but think that Libertopia would have a really ugly side full of wanton child pornography and 14 year old girls for sale.

So far, it is your Statistopia that has always delivered the "goods", and not Libertopia.

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

Autolykos — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 12:39:36 GMT

DMI1:
I can't help but admit that I have yet to see a convincing argument as to how this issue would be handled in a free society.

You mention two issues in the thread title. Why exactly are both of them issues, as opposed issues in your opinion (i.e. things you don't like)?

On the other hand, do you see these things as always and necessarily being "handled" in today's world? People like Elizabeth Smart, Elisabeth Fritzl, and Jaycee Dugard might have something to say there.

DMI1:
I mean, I sure as hell would bankrupt myself to protect my (hypothetical) kids from sexual deviants. But those poor orphaned boys and immigrant girls that are being used and abused in the shadier brothels of town? Regrettable, but I'm sure most of us would not donate as many resources as needed to stop the abuse.

What if your child wants to be with a sexual deviant? What if he/she is fine with the deviancy, let alone enjoys it? Would you then forcibly imprison your child within your house?

Is a prostitute or an escort necessarily being abused in his/her line of work, in your opinion? Why or why not?

DMI1:
I can't help but think that Libertopia would have a really ugly side full of wanton child pornography and 14 year old girls for sale. I know it also happens under statism but... well it's just not my cup of tea. (Please note I am not advocating the existence of the state over the issue).

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine. Feel free to not live anywhere near where you know such things happen and not associate with anyone who you know engages in or even advocates that sort of thing.

By the way, and as much as I hate to feel obliged to do this (on one level), please don't misconstrue any of the above as me advocating pedophilia or sexual slavery. Personally, I think a libertarian society would handle sexual slavery just as it would handle slavery in general - any sexual-slavery contract would be unenforceable. Of course, that's cold comfort for someone like Elisabeth Fritzl, who's locked up for years with no recourse. As horrific and tragic as such sitiations are, they serve (or at least should serve, IMO) to remind us that there are no guarantees for anything in this world.

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

hashem — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:55:02 GMT

At risk of damaging my oh so important reputation here...

In the first place, modern sexual norms are in my opinion severely influenced by religious institutions. If we're going to assume Libertopia, then A) we should assume social norms consistent with Liberty and B) of course we necessarily agree that whatever people do voluntarily is definitively justified.

The only question remaining is "when can a person consent?" I say, a person can consent when he consents. Who cares what anyone else thinks?! This IS Libertopia after all, not Arbitropia.

EDIT: The above was relevant to pedophilia. Obviously slavery is inconsisten with liberty. But why only pedophilia? Can younger humans have intercourse with their hands? Can they have intercourse with a tree? Again, it's nobody's business but the humans involved, and if the activity is voluntary than nobody else has any say in the matter.

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

DanielMuff — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:24:40 GMT

Just so that you guys know, there's about another 400 threads on this topic in this forum. With that said, fight!

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

vive la insurrection — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 07:07:51 GMT

1) Custom and culture determine what pedophilia and slavery is

2) In so much as people are not in a succesful bloody revolt against that system it can be said that the insitutions are acting "correct" to determine what those terms mean, and are doing good enough in preventing them as major things to consider as a problem.

3) Prices are the only rational way to determine how to allocate resources to a social instution

4) In so much as it is a tautology that pedophilia and sexual slavery is asocial, any social theory automatically (be it marxism, progressivism market anarchism, or whatever) assumes they can not be prevelant as that is the nature of being a social being.

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

Clayton — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:40:20 GMT

I can't help but admit that I have yet to see a convincing argument as to how this issue would be handled in a free society.

I mean, I sure as hell would bankrupt myself to protect my (hypothetical) kids from sexual deviants. But those poor orphaned boys and immigrant girls that are being used and abused in the shadier brothels of town? Regrettable, but I'm sure most of us would not donate as many resources as needed to stop the abuse.

I can't help but think that Libertopia would have a really ugly side full of wanton child pornography and 14 year old girls for sale. I know it also happens under statism but... well it's just not my cup of tea. (Please note I am not advocating the existence of the state over the issue).

Discuss

(Please visit the site to view this media)

People are not more charitable by virtue of being governed. If human beings are so pitiless as to leave children to be abused without any charitable attempts to deliver them, what makes our leaders any different? Why is it that our leaders are less disposed to do the same, or worse, to systematize and cover up such abuse?

Fourteen was until very recently a marriageable age in some US states.

Clayton -

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

Freedom4Me73986 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 06:09:04 GMT

Private police and private free-market jails. Done.

And the age of consent is stupid to begin with. 14 year olds should be allowed to be sexually active as long as they want. Is someone putting a gun to their heads and forcing them to have sex with those men? No.

Re: Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

Wesker1982 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 05:58:38 GMT

Reputation and ostracism. Not many people are going to allow a known child molester on their property. And anyone doing business or associating with known child molesters would also suffer reputation damage.

Pedophilia and sexual slavery in Libertopia

DMI1 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 05:22:21 GMT

I can't help but admit that I have yet to see a convincing argument as to how this issue would be handled in a free society.

I mean, I sure as hell would bankrupt myself to protect my (hypothetical) kids from sexual deviants. But those poor orphaned boys and immigrant girls that are being used and abused in the shadier brothels of town? Regrettable, but I'm sure most of us would not donate as many resources as needed to stop the abuse.

I can't help but think that Libertopia would have a really ugly side full of wanton child pornography and 14 year old girls for sale. I know it also happens under statism but... well it's just not my cup of tea. (Please note I am not advocating the existence of the state over the issue).

Discuss