Political Theory

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Thu, 25 Aug 2011 00:15:40 GMT

LogisticEarth:

I highly contest the idea that people would rather be on welfare than work, however. You must be incredibly out of touch with the vast majority of unemployed people. To suggest that an unemployment check provides anything near a level of safety, security, comfort, or an actual living wage is ridiculous.

This is from a while back, but I'd just like to offer my own personal experience here. In 2009 I was on unemployment for a few months, and I was able to pay my $800+/month rent and utility bills. I bought a video game now and again, and booze, and was still able to stick $100 a month into savings. Now, I'm an unmarried guy with no dependents, but at the same time I was nowhere near maxing out the benefits, and as you can see I could have made some cutbacks too. If I wanted to, I could have basically sat on my ass all day drinking and playing video games, in a large one-bedroom apartment, and everything was fine as long as that check kept coming.. I know people who are on unemployment and still paying $120/month for cable TV. If that's not a "living wage" I don't know what is.

Thank you for sharing your experience. This is exactly my point. These stories are a dime-a-dozen. Even Peter Schiff admits he sat around and collected unemployment after college and hung out on the beach. (Most of that video is a great extrapolation of everything I've been saying. The relevant discussion starts here.)

And here's the vlog that came before that people were reacting to, another great dose of reality.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

LogisticEarth — Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:42:56 GMT

I think it came out to something like $1400-1500/month, if I recall.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Wheylous — Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:18:30 GMT

May I ask how much the unemployment benefits were?

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

LogisticEarth — Wed, 24 Aug 2011 19:12:48 GMT

I highly contest the idea that people would rather be on welfare than work, however. You must be incredibly out of touch with the vast majority of unemployed people. To suggest that an unemployment check provides anything near a level of safety, security, comfort, or an actual living wage is ridiculous.

This is from a while back, but I'd just like to offer my own personal experience here. In 2009 I was on unemployment for a few months, and I was able to pay my $800+/month rent and utility bills. I bought a video game now and again, and booze, and was still able to stick $100 a month into savings. Now, I'm an unmarried guy with no dependents, but at the same time I was nowhere near maxing out the benefits, and as you can see I could have made some cutbacks too. If I wanted to, I could have basically sat on my ass all day drinking and playing video games, in a large one-bedroom apartment, and everything was fine as long as that check kept coming.. I know people who are on unemployment and still paying $120/month for cable TV. If that's not a "living wage" I don't know what is.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:56:11 GMT

Birthday Pony:

When you figure out whatever my disorder is on this thread:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/25980.aspx

my only hope is that you'll be kind enough to direct me to the psychological attention I so desperately need. God forbid a leftoid Marxist communist syndicalist anarcho-statist bitch like me dare to open my mouth when I have the convenience of a microwave.

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to be, let alone how it has anything to do with this discussion.

It's probably for the best if you don't go to FLL anyway. All that's there is porn and pancakes.

Well I do enjoy a good flapjack. Pancakes are pretty good too.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Birthday Pony — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:11:45 GMT

When you figure out whatever my disorder is on this thread:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/25980.aspx

my only hope is that you'll be kind enough to direct me to the psychological attention I so desperately need. God forbid a leftoid Marxist communist syndicalist anarcho-statist bitch like me dare to open my mouth when I have the convenience of a microwave.

It's probably for the best if you don't go to FLL anyway. All that's there is porn and pancakes.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:45:57 GMT

Birthday Pony:
You reject whatever I say on face-value just knowing my background.

Your background? I know nothing of your background other than what you've revealed here. I've rejected what you said so far because everything you've presented has either been nebulous nonsense or just plain wrong.

You maintain your superior position by insisting that I won't discuss things with you because my argument is just wrong

What superior position? There is no position to be had. Again, you've taken up half the thread and haven't even made a single point.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Birthday Pony — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:21:34 GMT

As we both know at this point, we're doing little more than having the online equivilent of a playground quibble between two fifth graders. I'm not saying my argument as it stands here has been laid out in such a stellar fashion that it is undeniably understandable and quantifiably true. What I'm saying is that my first thread here was around 5 pages of clarifying differences in understandings of property before I got an answer to my original question.

So no, at this point I'm not interested in clarifying much. You reject whatever I say on face-value just knowing my background. Why go through the effort of seamless communication and yield the same results? At least this way we both get something. You maintain your superior position by insisting that I won't discuss things with you because my argument is just wrong, and I get to throw in my two cents so that anyone who is interested in having a mutually beneficial discussion can seek me out.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:12:09 GMT

Birthday Pony:

"...and basically just contradict anything I type."

"Not at all..."

Oh boy, I saw it coming from too far away.

Yawn. Seriously is this what you call "expounding effort in understanding"? You make accusations, then claim that if I deny them it proves them to be true? Is that how it works? So basiclly if someone wanted to call a murderer and say you killed that girl who went missing, all he would have to do is preface it with, "I know you'll deny it, because that's exactly what a guilty person would do...."

This is the kind of useless nonsense that "arguments" like yours are fraught with. You have no real standing for the views you're promoting, so you when you have to defend them you end up resorting to logical fallacies.

I'm not that into clarfiying what I mean

As our friend Fred Thompson says: I didn't know you were going to admit that.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Birthday Pony — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:32:58 GMT

"...and basically just contradict anything I type."

"Not at all..."

Oh boy, I saw it coming from too far away. Anyway, if you really, really want to continue, go ahead and go to FLL. I haven't been trying to do anything more than help Wheylous here, and this board, as I've said numerous times, is not a place I particularly enjoy posting long-winded arguments. After my first thread where I was introduced to all the amazing semantical acrobatics I have to go through just to describe a commonly used term, I'm not that into clarfiying what I mean when there's no recirpocal action from the rest of the community.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:17:20 GMT

Birthday Pony:
I don't think you really care anyway. I think you just want to nit-pick holes, expound no effort in understanding, and basically just contradict anything I type.

Not at all. If you typed anything that was decently reasoned or actually made logical sense, I'd have no problem not only not contradicting it, I'd more than likely agree with you.

And I don't have to nit-pick to create holes...the gaps in your so-called "argument" are so pronounced on their own, they barely need even illumination. All I did was ask you to define your terms and you can't even do that. You, like most statists, just revert to more nebulous pathos appeals and non-arguments.

But by all means, if you think you had some argument to make, go ahead and make it, because I'm still not even sure you ever had a point. If you did, it certainly hasn't yet been spelled out.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

DanielMuff — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:16:17 GMT

Birthday Pony:

Hey there,

I'm going to start off by saying this will be my only post on this thread,[...]

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Birthday Pony — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:58:10 GMT

I don't think you really care anyway. I think you just want to nit-pick holes, expound no effort in understanding, and basically just contradict anything I type.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

John James — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:46:51 GMT

I didn't realize your "argument" = "the Internet". I didn't even think you had an argument.

Re: Accumulation of capital (Help)...

Birthday Pony — Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:38:29 GMT

I mostly don't feel comfortable here, and its a discussion that started on that board. But sure, why not, if you like it better that way, you've destroyed my entire argument. You win the internet.