Political Theory

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Wesker1982 — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:16:41 GMT

More people will google it, a lot of them will be lead to the truth.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Chyd3nius — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:18:16 GMT

There is already the term 'autarchy', but in English it sounds too much like 'autarky', which is a completely different thing.

Oh yes, how did I forget... Well, 'voluntary' is still there. And there is always the latin. Or we can try to occupy 'autarky'

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Aristippus — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:47:36 GMT

There is already the term 'autarchy', but in English it sounds too much like 'autarky', which is a completely different thing.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Chyd3nius — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:14:08 GMT

Anarchy is from Greek language, and means 'an = no' and 'archy = rulers'. I think we should derive a new combination from the same language. Let's replace the 'An' with 'Voluntary', or 'Self'. Though I'm not expert in Greek language so I can't offer any alternative, just these ideas.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Jackson LaRose — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:13:28 GMT

OK, gotcha.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Autolykos — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:19:03 GMT

Jackson LaRose:
Autolykos,

Yes, this is only a discussion as to what qualifies as "organized religion". It is very similar to defining what a "state" is. Do we consider one clan shaman eating fly agaric to enter the spirit world to heal a sick person as "organized" as the Roman Catholic church? Probably not. But, do we both consider them "organized" to some degree? Perhaps. Is the clan chief in this scenario head of a "state" as much as Stalin was for the USSR? Again, probably not. I'm sure an argument could be made that it can be considered a "state" nontheless.

That's where the generalization comes in. If anything remotely spiritual is "organized religion", then the term loses enough intellectual resolution to become practically useless.

My own definition of "organized religion" is something like "a set of rituals (praxis) and beliefs (doxis) that are passed from one generation to another". It certainly seems to me that that definition in no way excludes hunter-gatherer cultures. Does that make more sense? Obviously I'm not referring to anything and everything that's remotely spiritual as "organized religion".

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Clayton — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:47:46 GMT

Surely there was spiritualism before this

OK, that's my point. For whatever reason, people have held superstitious beliefs and engaged in mystical rituals and passed on wisdom and morality tales without any connection to an aggressive property-rights violator. The origins of religion are, in fact, completely voluntary. I think it's a mistake to read the word "religion" as synonymous with "The Vatican" or "the 700 Club".

Clayton -

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Jackson LaRose — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:21:53 GMT

Autolykos,

Yes, this is only a discussion as to what qualifies as "organized religion". It is very similar to defining what a "state" is. Do we consider one clan shaman eating fly agaric to enter the spirit world to heal a sick person as "organized" as the Roman Catholic church? Probably not. But, do we both consider them "organized" to some degree? Perhaps. Is the clan chief in this scenario head of a "state" as much as Stalin was for the USSR? Again, probably not. I'm sure an argument could be made that it can be considered a "state" nontheless.

That's where the generalization comes in. If anything remotely spiritual is "organized religion", then the term loses enough intellectual resolution to become practically useless.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Pfeichu — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:49:46 GMT

That's cognitive dissonance at work. The financial system is controlled by governments and banks, yet we are led to believe that lack of regulation causes the business cycle.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Eric080 — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:34:38 GMT

This is the first time market anarchy has been name-dropped by an international figure! We're making progress

Seriously though, I have no clue what she is referring to. Let me get this straight: the governments control the currencies and the interest rates, yet somehow our financial system is in uncontrollable anarchy?

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Autolykos — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:58:13 GMT

Jackson LaRose:
To Autolykos, I might question so broad a generalization of the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere. There is certainly a correlation between sedentary agriculture and the rise of organized, centralized religion. Certainly, the entire spectrum was once represented here (The simple animism of the Inuit, versus the elaborate monuments and ceremonies of the Aztec). I'm willing to venture that the more heavily organized the religion of any society (not sure what "native american tribes" you were referring to) is, the more dependent on agriculture, and the more sedentary, it is.

I see no qualitative distinction between the simple animism of the Inuit vs. the elaborate monuments and ceremonies of the Aztec. It's simply a difference of degree. Both of the religions are/were organized to some extent. And where exactly was I generalizing?

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Wheylous — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:31:55 GMT

About the whole religion thing, it depends how you are defining the term. Wheylous seems to be referring to "organized religion", which did begin with sedentary living (skull cult of Jerhico, bull cult of Catal Hyuk, etc.) and agriculture, culminating in the full blown collusion between king and priests resulting in the ziggurats/communal granaries. As he said, tribal mysticism surely has much older origins (the cave paintings of shamans at Lascaux, the tassil n'ajjer "bee man", etc.)

Yes, that's what I was taught in Art History class.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Jackson LaRose — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:27:11 GMT

About the whole religion thing, it depends how you are defining the term. Wheylous seems to be referring to "organized religion", which did begin with sedentary living (skull cult of Jerhico, bull cult of Catal Hyuk, etc.) and agriculture, culminating in the full blown collusion between king and priests resulting in the ziggurats/communal granaries. As he said, tribal mysticism surely has much older origins (the cave paintings of shamans at Lascaux, the tassil n'ajjer "bee man", etc.)

To Autolykos, I might question so broad a generalization of the native peoples of the Western Hemisphere. There is certainly a correlation between sedentary agriculture and the rise of organized, centralized religion. Certainly, the entire spectrum was once represented here (The simple animism of the Inuit, versus the elaborate monuments and ceremonies of the Aztec). I'm willing to venture that the more heavily organized the religion of any society (not sure what "native american tribes" you were referring to) is, the more dependent on agriculture, and the more sedentary, it is.

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

LogisticEarth — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:22:58 GMT

"Capitalism means that people consume"

Oh boy I love that one. Yes, without Capitalism, nobody would consume anything and we'd live in harmony!

Personally, I don't use the term Anarcho-Capitalism that much, I've tried to use "voluntarism" or "free market" more often to avoid the confusion and negative reactions it sparks in those not familar with the ideas. That said, I do hope that it doesn't get another "mainstream redefinition", as this would really confuse anyone looking at the literature. I'm no conspiracy theorist but this kind of stuff always reminds me of Newspeak and Doublethink from 1984. I mean, look at what happened to the term "Liberal".

Then again the anarcho-leftists are always yelling at us for stealing "Libertarian" from them, so it cuts both ways. :-P

Re: It's Official: Anarcho-capitalism must be abandoned

Pfeichu — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:05:32 GMT

You are right. As usual for polititians, she has no idea what her words mean. I have translated the rest of the quotes from the link.

"It's not too late to change the current situation, although to change it will be necessary to touch powerful interests, small but powerful."

"I am telling you because of the experience Argentina went through in 2001."

She insisted on a "necessary regulation of the financial markets."

"We are living in an anarcho-capitalism in which today we invest in oil, tomorrow in something else, just for speculation."

"There cannot be food security without jobs, which is what gives people the possibility to buy food."

"Capitalism means that people consume, [we need to] return to serious capitalsm [instead of] this kind of anarcho-capitalism in which no one controls anyone."

Typical NWO hogwash. But as far as I know it is the first time a president has used the term anarcho-capitalsm. It could be a coincidence. Maybe she or her advisors thought up the term by themselves without knowing about Austrian theory. Or maybe it's a deliberate attack on libertarianism using the typical strategy of misusing the language to confuse people. Just look at what politicians and intellectuals have done to the word capitalism.