Political Theory

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:12:54 GMT

It's all messed up. I just like to say libertarian, because it's the least corrupted of political terms.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

Anenome — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:46:48 GMT

Rothbard has a great chapter on this in Ethics of Liberty called "Right, Left, and the Prospects for Liberty" where he talks about where communism and the rest lie on the spectrum historically. It's free as a download on this site, so no reason not to check it out in the literature section.

In it he calls the right the traditional side of conservatism. But it gets screwed up to the modern american hearer because 'liberalism' and 'conservatism' are corrupted terms in the modern US.

Liberalism historically meant movement towards freedom. And conservatives were those who were in favor of the status quo, that being of power, privilege, and state power.

So, historical libertarians were effectively on the left. This was largely before socialism, back when it would've been Whigs versus Tories and the like, with whigs in favor of personal freedom and tories in favor of state power and monarchical authority.

There's a lot more to it, including identifications and alliances against the current ruling power messing with stuff.

Suffice it to say, historically an anarcho-capitalist would be a leftist. However eventually the left was taken over by socialists, who adopted state power and became historical-conservatives themselves thereby once they achieved power, adopted the means of the conservatives if not their goals.

Thus, those now in favor of personal freedom and against state power began to consider themselves rightists. Etc.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 14:46:21 GMT

If he really was, would he really be running for President on the Republican ticket and serving 12 terms in the Congress?

Maybe he's just non-Agorist.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

Kelvin Silva — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 05:43:35 GMT

Ron paul is a closeted anarchist.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

gotlucky — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 03:42:41 GMT

I'm surprised no one has provided a critique of the Nolan Chart yet, since what constitutes a personal or economic issue is very arbitrarily decided and since the state is the antithesis of the market.

Well, I have usually seen the chart as social vs economic, but I understand your point. I think the main idea behind the chart is correct, though it still misses the mark. After all, while most people would consider gay marriage a social issue, it is the libertarian position that not only should marriage be legal, but also it should not be regulated at all. So in that respect the chart is deficient. But I think the main idea behind the chart is good enough.

Also, does Dr. Paul really favor public transportation? I don't think so, but then maybe he does or maybe I'm misreading.

I don't believe he does, but I the chart in general is accurate, even if the specific politicians may not be placed correctly.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 03:39:41 GMT

Well I read a review of the New Libertarian Manifesto (Konkin's book) on Amazon.com by a self-described Rothbardian, who said after reading the book he became an agorist, and was discouraged when he read Rothbard's critiques of Konkin's work, because he said it was the first time he ever saw anything by Rothbard that was so inaccurate and wrong (I haven't read any of this, just so you know). I think Konkin even dedicates the NLM to Rothbard.

All I really know is, is that Konkin supported bringing about a voluntarist society through "counter-economics," which basically means supporting the black market.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

gotlucky — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 03:30:02 GMT

I don't know much about Konkin. I just read this piece on him by Rothbard. It sounds like Konkin was a lefty, so his view of libertarianism would reflect that. According to Rothbard, it sounds like Konkin's idea of libertarianism is not at all like either Rothbard's or mine.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 03:07:07 GMT

@ gotlucky

Thanks for the info. But didn't Samuel Edward Konkin III say that he believed that libertarianism was a radical left philosophy?

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

No2statism — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:47:43 GMT

I'm surprised no one has provided a critique of the Nolan Chart yet, since what constitutes a personal or economic issue is very arbitrarily decided and since the state is the antithesis of the market.

Also, does Dr. Paul really favor public transportation? I don't think so, but then maybe he does or maybe I'm misreading.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

gotlucky — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:28:38 GMT

Those were some nice charts, FlyingAxe!

@SkepticalMetal

The reason you've heard that anarchism is considered far-left is because historically anarchism has been synonymous with communism. There were some exceptions, but it is the reason that even Murray Rothbard was originally hesitant to call himself an anarchist. This is changing since the rise of libertarianism quite some time ago, and I expect that it will be fully reversed in the public's eye eventually.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:11:17 GMT

Hey, that's pretty neat. Thanks.

Re: Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

FlyingAxe — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 02:05:21 GMT

Nolan chart:

Anarchy is "above" libertarian.

Also, this:

Anarchism on the Political Spectrum

SkepticalMetal — Mon, 24 Sep 2012 01:50:28 GMT

For the longest time, I thought that anarchism didn't have a place on the political spectrum, essentially due to the fact that it's anti-politics. But I found out recently that anarchism is located around the "far-left" of the political spectrum.

How true is this, exactly? Can anarchism be included on the spectrum? What about libertarianism, as I've heard libertarianism is located on the right side (which doesn't add up to what I stated previously, as anarchism is a part of what libertarianism broadly represents).