Political Theory

Re: How to fund the state?

CactusClef — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:31:01 GMT

This is an interesting concept. Like fractional reserve banking, we increase the supply of votes instead of the supply of money.

Inflationary polling.

Re: How to fund the state?

purplemage — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:31:07 GMT

JimS:
How about this idea: funding the state through selling of votes.

Say there are 100 eligible voters in a community. Each eligible voter gets one vote, so that's 100 votes. Then there's an auction for 20% more votes. Proceeds from the auction becomes the source of funding of the government. Voting (by all 120 votes) takes place after the auction is closed. All government programs voted into existence at this election have a sunset date that is the next election. It's a voluntary tax on the political junkies :-) If you really like your pet program, you'd better pay for it through buying votes. When people realize it's really less expensive to just make things happen through private funding instead of buying votes and vote it into existence, the government gradually gets replaced by private voluntary institutions.

Wierd, I also had a similar idea, except people buy votes.

But your idea sounds better.

Re: How to fund the state?

Nathyn — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:12:14 GMT

Libertas est Veritas:
I am an anarcho-capitalist at heart, but from a pragmatic viewpoint, I am still a minarchist. But seeing coercion and economic intervention as bad, I have been wondering how funding a minarchist state would be possible.
I have been toying with the idea of voluntarily funded state programs. This would allow even things like social security for the disabled, etc.
Any thoughts on that? Or perhaps alternative funding methods that would still be minimally intrusive?

Quote them in a private stockmarket, maybe?

People aren't going to just pay taxes for public goods. However, if the investment had a return, such as with funding the government through actual public quoting of the "full faith and credit" of the government might be one proposal. If faith were lost in the government's ability to government, the value of the stock would drop. That, in turn, would drive people to invest in the government again but only if the government had the credibility to reduce such corruption. And, in general, the government would avoid corruption because, otherwise, their stock would fall through the floor.

Inquisitor:
I have to ask - are you serious?

"Freedom costs a buck 'o five."

-Team America: World Police

Re: How to fund the state?

Inquisitor — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:57:18 GMT

I have to ask - are you serious?

Re: How to fund the state?

libertarian — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:52:15 GMT

How about imposing a head tax on immigrants? So this is a combination of immigration reduction and funding of the state.

I know a better one: Eugenic tax = less intelligent individuals have to be enslaved by taxes.

Re: How to fund the state?

JimS — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 07:18:30 GMT

How about this idea: funding the state through selling of votes.

Say there are 100 eligible voters in a community. Each eligible voter gets one vote, so that's 100 votes. Then there's an auction for 20% more votes. Proceeds from the auction becomes the source of funding of the government. Voting (by all 120 votes) takes place after the auction is closed. All government programs voted into existence at this election have a sunset date that is the next election. It's a voluntary tax on the political junkies :-) If you really like your pet program, you'd better pay for it through buying votes. When people realize it's really less expensive to just make things happen through private funding instead of buying votes and vote it into existence, the government gradually gets replaced by private voluntary institutions.

Re: How to fund the state?

Harksaw — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:45:06 GMT

libertarian:
Government can spend $100 billion every year, more than enough. So every person can voluntary fund $500 every year. We don't need taxes. I heard that the government owns approximently 50% of our land. The government can make money by selling the land.The government can fund itself for 100 years by just selling its land.

This is the best suggestion I've heard - that a minarchist government could fund itself through either selling its land, or, more permanently, selling the rights to the lumber or whatever other natural resources are on that land.

This, however, ignores the problem of how the minarchist government came to own so much land in the first place, but starting from where we are now, it might work.

Re: How to fund the state?

Niccolò — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:52:34 GMT

xahrx:
You can't voluntarily fund something that is inherently voluntary. The problem is people have a natural tendency toward thievery.

And that's why God invented guns.

Try to enforce your minarchist state. No, really. I dare ya'.

Re: How to fund the state?

CactusClef — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:37:00 GMT

I recently joined a fraternal club and learned a little of it’s history. It was created initially to help neighbors who were unable to care for themselves due to illness or age. This was in the early part of the 20^th century.

As the State has taken over this function, this organization has moved it’s focus to the sponsoring other charitable causes.

I guess the point is that society will take care of these social concerns if the state will let things be.

Re: How to fund the state?

Bostwick — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:29:34 GMT

libertarian:
Government can spend $100 billion every year, more than enough. So every person can voluntary fund $500 every year. We don't need taxes. I heard that the government owns approximently 50% of our land. The government can make money by selling the land.The government can fund itself for 100 years by just selling its land.

Couple problems with that.

Its still a tax because its decided upon arbitrarily by one party, and its not a ratio of exchange(a price).

What would happen to the people that decided to not give $500 every year?

If the government does take up selling property it will be to fund foreign wars.

Re: How to fund the state?

Parsidius — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:43:01 GMT

The most just (or rather least injust) method of funding the state would be through subsidy, as they did in the Middle Ages. The king didn't have the power to tax without the consent of his subjects, and so had to gain their approval by righting their grievances before they would allow him to tax them.

Re: How to fund the state?

libertarian — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:44:45 GMT

Government can spend $100 billion every year, more than enough. So every person can voluntary fund $500 every year. We don't need taxes. I heard that the government owns approximently 50% of our land. The government can make money by selling the land.The government can fund itself for 100 years by just selling its land.

Re: How to fund the state?

xahrx — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:15:36 GMT

ozzy43:
Nock has some ideas about this, in reference to Jefferson - the basic idea is to stop thinking top down, as we've all been conditioned to think, and start thinking bottom-up - this is related to the standard and accepted minarchist principle of subsidiarity (emphasis mine):

I can see your point, but the state is a top down construct. The market is bottom up. One can't be the other. Once you have a voluntarily funded organization it does cease to be a state, because the essential feature of the state is force. That's not to say similar functions the state claims to serve may not be provided privately, but once you're not compelled to pay for them or comply with the rules of doing business with them even if you don't want to do such business, you're not dealing with a state. You're dealing with Wal Mart.

Re: How to fund the state?

Brainpolice — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:15:31 GMT

I'm sorry, this is too important for me not to nitpick about.

In the 17-18th century, when the state came into existence

Wait a second. The state didn't pre-exist the 17th century? Pre-17th century, the world was essentially anarchic? Really? Since when? It seems to me that there have been states in various forms for thousands of years. The modern state may have come into existance then, but surely the history of state power goes back much further then that. Much much further.

Re: How to fund the state?

DBratton — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:36:51 GMT

Wasn't Athens and most of the other Greek city states funded through voluntary contributions? The liturgy was sort of coerced in that wealthy citizens were pressured into contributing to the common good. But I believe it was still essentially voluntary. I know I'm ignoring tribute payments; but most of the Greek city states didn't receive tribute, and Athens didn't receive tribute in it's early years.

BTW the Romans really liked the Greek system of having the wealthiest people in town pay all the expenses for the entire town - except for the voluntary part.