Political Theory

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Bostwick — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:56:13 GMT

Juan:
How was that 'on topic' ?

Because it addressed the subject of the thread.

Even if we assume his post was racist, can something racist never be on topic?

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Juan — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:43:48 GMT

The second post was Byzantine's and was his usual racist rant. How was that 'on topic' ?

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Bostwick — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:32:15 GMT

ryanpatgray:
Eric, the first person to respond did respond but after that it was almost all off topic. I have not made ad hominems.

The first two posts were on topic, then you made the third.

ryanpatgray:

I should have known Byzantine would respond with a bigoted rant. I would not be surprised if he was a statist trying to give Austrians a bad name.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

ryanpatgray — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:30:00 GMT

JonBostwick:

ryanpatgray:

I notice that none of the responses have been about the Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008) report.

Not true. People were responding on topic until you changed the topic with your ad hominems.

The idea that mexico will "collapse" is bogus. Its just the propoganda machine for another war against mexico coming online.

Eric, the first person to respond did respond but after that it was almost all off topic. I have not made ad hominems.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Bostwick — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 04:09:22 GMT

ryanpatgray:

I notice that none of the responses have been about the Joint Operating Environment (JOE 2008) report.

Not true. People were responding on topic until you changed the topic with your ad hominems.

The idea that mexico will "collapse" is bogus. Its just the propoganda machine for another war against mexico coming online.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

ThorsMitersaw — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:38:18 GMT

Eric:

It depends how it is handled by America, the conflict will probabley be blamed on too little government as usual.

this is why I think we will never win

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

liberty student — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:21:40 GMT

kiba:
In fact, the shopowners are probably happy to serve them.

Commercial racism manifests itself in an obsession with serving only the colour green.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

ryanpatgray — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:40:33 GMT

liberty student:

wombatron:

Truther in the sense of "The state lied/covered up what really happened and had some degree of indirect responsibility for 9/11" or truther in the sense of "ZOMG!!! The CIA planted explosives in the Twin Towers so that the Jews can take over!!!"?

Truther in the sense of "If you believe what the state tells you as the truth, about an incident that allowed them to spend, murder and destroy liberty with impunity, then you're the nut".

I agree that one should not trust the government in general. On that we agree

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

ryanpatgray — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:37:59 GMT

kiba:

That's a bunch of crap. Tiny mercenary groups in the blood diamond wars were responsible for pushing back against a tyannical genocidal paramilitary thugs meanwhile thousand of hapless UN peacekeepers couldn't even defend themsleves and the people they were responsible for defending.

Given the performance of UN peacekeepers, I doubt the US military, with their hi-tech doodas, will be able to do such a competent job of beating the craps out of military-graded trained gangsters.

One problem the military sometimes has is micromanagement from the top. Watch Hotel Rwanda sometime. The UN peacekeepers were not allowed to have loaded guns. If you have that kind of micromanagement of course there will be serious problems.

kiba:
Beside the US is in part responsible for creating this mess of bloody drug trade where extortion and death is the norm..

Yes. This says a great deal about blowback but not a single thing about competance.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Marko — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:33:28 GMT

GilesStratton:

However, it has also received money voluntarily. In the form of government bonds, for example.

The bonds only have value because the state has the ability to tax people. This ability is not legitimate however, instead it is founded on violence. Those who buy bonds are therefore a party to plunder of the taxpayer.

GilesStratton:
Nonetheless, breaking the rules of the state's roads, when you voluntarily enter them is theft. Perhaps you're justified in doing in since they owe you the money anyway, but it is theft regardless.

It is not theft, because the state does not own the roads. It claims it does and as the final arbitrer recognises its own claim, but in fact it is usurping roads that are not its rightfully property.

No more than the cotton produced by slaves was the rightful property of the plantation master.

GilesStratton:
Yes, you're quite correct. State borders should be erased and people should be able to enforce their own property lines. This means no entry unless you're specifically invited, and even then it is contingent. Now, currently that's not possible. Closed borders, however, will bring us far closer.

Closer to the outcome, but further away from the principle.

Until the day that the state is dismanteled you want for the state to maintain a closed border policy, because that although it is illegitimate is closer to the outcome we would see in the stateless society.

Now first tell me how is that an anti-statist position?

And second, tell me how does that make you any different from a cultural marxist who belives that in condition of statelessnes society is going to be highly promiscuous and very marijuana friendly and therefore although he is otherwise an anarchist until the day the state is destroyed he supports there be a lot of mandatory, taxpayer funded free love and pro-drugs propaganda in schools? Because although not ideal, it brings closer the stateless outcome (as he predicts it)?

GilesStratton:
Exactly, so why are you so keen on further eroding property rights? Which is exactly what the state thrives off.

And where do I do that?

You`re the one telling Jose he can`t have his cousin from Tijuana come for a visit.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

sicsempertyrannis — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:32:59 GMT

Marko:

sicsempertyrannis, I saw that your post disappeared. Did you delete it or was it a forum glitch? I`ll anwser in case it was the later.

By saying that the state sometimes suceeds in outcomes I meant that it suceeds provided your personal preference for an outcome happens to be the outcome that is brought forth by the state. I don`t mean it in the absolute sence, but in the relative sense.

Lets say there was a man for whom the only important thing in life would be for an American to step on the moon before anyone else. Well for such a man NASA would be a resounding success. Since he prefers an American landing on the moon to liberty, then judging from his perspective the state is perfectly OK because it did not go against his prefered outcome but in fact made it happen sooner than he ever could.

I deleted it after I realised what you were getting at.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

kiba — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:22:16 GMT

GilesStratton:

So what? They still need customers, which they're not likely to get if they've irritated most people in the area by bringing in immigrants.

That give me the "???". I just don't understand why some people are irritated by areas serving immigrants. Seem to me a non-issue.

In any case, are we forgetting ethnic shops and resturants that are concentrated in certain area? I am sure most immigrants goes there instead of American shops, because well they prefer to shop there.

I often went to Asian markets and restaurants. When some white guys or some out of place persons are here, they seem to me more of a curioisty if anybody care at all. In fact, the shopowners are probably happy to serve them.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

CorporateGhost — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:14:55 GMT

GilesStratton:

CorporateGhost:
Sure, in a society populated entirely by bigots,people will be irritated by immigrants and restaurants won't probably aloud "the unwanteds".

Honestly, I'm quite disappointed with the ease with which bigot is used around here. I thought Austrians/ libertarians generally frowned upon such PC nonsense. Apparently not, it seems that a few people could learn some things from Dr Block's recent drama.

I could use a nice euphemism like "racially conscious" if you prefer.

GilesStratton:

CorporateGhost:
Wanting to do business with someone and not wanting them to live anywhere near you brings you higher economic costs

So what? They still need customers, which they're not likely to get if they've irritated most people in the area by bringing in immigrants.

Again, provided that we are talking about a society that is mostly populated by "racially conscious" people who wold be upset by having a non-caucasian siting in a table near them.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

Marko — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:08:06 GMT

sicsempertyrannis, I saw that your post disappeared. Did you delete it or was it a forum glitch? I`ll anwser in case it was the later.

By saying that the state sometimes suceeds in outcomes I meant that it suceeds provided your personal preference for an outcome happens to be the outcome that is brought forth by the state. I don`t mean it in the absolute sence, but in the relative sense.

Lets say there was a man for whom the only important thing in life would be for an American to step on the moon before anyone else. Well for such a man NASA would be a resounding success. Since he prefers an American landing on the moon to liberty, then judging from his perspective the state is perfectly OK because it did not go against his prefered outcome but in fact made it happen sooner than he ever could.

Re: U.S. military report warns 'sudden collapse' of Mexico is possible

hayekianxyz — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:03:02 GMT

CorporateGhost:
Sure, in a society populated entirely by bigots,people will be irritated by immigrants and restaurants won't probably aloud "the unwanteds".

Honestly, I'm quite disappointed with the ease with which bigot is used around here. I thought Austrians/ libertarians generally frowned upon such PC nonsense. Apparently not, it seems that a few people could learn some things from Dr Block's recent drama.

CorporateGhost:
Wanting to do business with someone and not wanting them to live anywhere near you brings you higher economic costs

So what? They still need customers, which they're not likely to get if they've irritated most people in the area by bringing in immigrants.