Political Theory

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Wilmot of Rochester — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:20:41 GMT

Conza88:

Nope, false left / right wing paradigm fails.

It is fallacious and maintained in order to keep people in a box.

Left wing = Communism / Stalinism / International Socialism

Right Wing = Fascism / Nazism / National Socialism

Oh look, 5 letters of difference! This type of socialism, or that type of socialism... Hmm, such a big choice to make!

It fails for you. Perhaps you ask too much?

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Conza88 — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 04:18:24 GMT

Nope, false left / right wing paradigm fails.

It is fallacious and maintained in order to keep people in a box.

Left wing = Communism / Stalinism / International Socialism

Right Wing = Fascism / Nazism / National Socialism

Oh look, 5 letters of difference! This type of socialism, or that type of socialism... Hmm, such a big choice to make!

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Wilmot of Rochester — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:29:11 GMT

Truthisnonexistent:

Wilmot of Rochester:

Truthisnonexistent:

Chomsky has said time and time again that the current economic system in any industrialized nation is not capitalism, it is far from capitalism. All he is saying on the topic of libertarianism is that historically, libertarianism goes hand in hand with leftist socialism, dating back to the french revolution. Only in America is libertarianism synonymous with capitalism, fiscal conservativism ect.

Er... It actually kind of means both. The two first examples of libertarian that come to my mind from the french revolution were Bastiat and Proudhon and though they disagreed vehemently on certain issues - like interest rates, for example - they both sat on the left side of the spectrum at about equal lengths.

I think people just have to admit that there is no claim to "original libertarianism." It seems like you have early examples on both sides of individualism and collectivism.

I agree. The way I see it..

Left= Libertarian

Right= Authoritarian

regardless of economics. I would consider the Bolsheviks right wing and so on.

Conceded.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Truthisnonexistent — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:01:24 GMT

Wilmot of Rochester:

Truthisnonexistent:

Chomsky has said time and time again that the current economic system in any industrialized nation is not capitalism, it is far from capitalism. All he is saying on the topic of libertarianism is that historically, libertarianism goes hand in hand with leftist socialism, dating back to the french revolution. Only in America is libertarianism synonymous with capitalism, fiscal conservativism ect.

Er... It actually kind of means both. The two first examples of libertarian that come to my mind from the french revolution were Bastiat and Proudhon and though they disagreed vehemently on certain issues - like interest rates, for example - they both sat on the left side of the spectrum at about equal lengths.

I think people just have to admit that there is no claim to "original libertarianism." It seems like you have early examples on both sides of individualism and collectivism.

I agree. The way I see it..

Left= Libertarian

Right= Authoritarian

regardless of economics. I would consider the Bolsheviks right wing and so on.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

ladyattis — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:32:46 GMT

Truthisnonexistent:
Who determines what is? Doesn't one have to initially feel that x is true in order to realize that x is true?

You and I do by virtue of the fact that identity among all possible entities are never contradictory (even when considering the strangeness of quantum mechanics).

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Wilmot of Rochester — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:29:11 GMT

Truthisnonexistent:

Chomsky has said time and time again that the current economic system in any industrialized nation is not capitalism, it is far from capitalism. All he is saying on the topic of libertarianism is that historically, libertarianism goes hand in hand with leftist socialism, dating back to the french revolution. Only in America is libertarianism synonymous with capitalism, fiscal conservativism ect.

Er... It actually kind of means both. The two first examples of libertarian that come to my mind from the french revolution were Bastiat and Proudhon and though they disagreed vehemently on certain issues - like interest rates, for example - they both sat on the left side of the spectrum at about equal lengths.

I think people just have to admit that there is no claim to "original libertarianism." It seems like you have early examples on both sides of individualism and collectivism.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Truthisnonexistent — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:19:24 GMT

ladyattis:

What you feel and what is so are two different things.

Who determines what is? Doesn't one have to initially feel that x is true in order to realize that x is true?

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

ladyattis — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:56:05 GMT

What you feel and what is so are two different things.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Truthisnonexistent — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:51:09 GMT

Anarchist Cain:

Truthisnonexistent:
I'm not a nihilist.

Then what's up with the name? I'm just curious

I feel the general consensus of reality is way off.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Andrew Cain — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:39:27 GMT

Truthisnonexistent:
I'm not a nihilist.

Then what's up with the name? I'm just curious

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Truthisnonexistent — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:18:52 GMT

equack:

Actually, if I recall in the 90s he advocated carpet bombing of Serbia. Anti-war my foot...

Read Chomsky's New Humanism: Lessons from Kosovo. Where he spends 100 pages condeming NATO's actions.

Anarchist Cain:

That is an interesting name. Wouldn't the nonexistance of truth be in fact a truth? Nihilists are so quirky, like Marxists.

I'm not a nihilist.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Jon Irenicus — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:44:30 GMT

TBH, I couldn't care less what Chomsky "thinks" or not. He so utterly misunderstands American streams of libertarianism that he is not worth bothering with.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Andrew Cain — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:25:03 GMT

That is an interesting name. Wouldn't the nonexistance of truth be in fact a truth? Nihilists are so quirky, like Marxists.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Truthisnonexistent — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:20:35 GMT

zefreak:

He is confused, dishonest, or both. How can someone as respected as Choamsky not differentiate between corporatism (and understand that it relies on the State) and capitalism? His "American Libertarian" construct is pure strawman.

Chomsky has said time and time again that the current economic system in any industrialized nation is not capitalism, it is far from capitalism. All he is saying on the topic of libertarianism is that historically, libertarianism goes hand in hand with leftist socialism, dating back to the french revolution. Only in America is libertarianism synonymous with capitalism, fiscal conservativism ect.

Re: Noam Chomsky on Libertarianism. Nonsense?

Eric — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:33:12 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt4dDOFNp9A&feature=related

this video is funny 2