Predictable. Lupus, or SLE, is a terrible disease that killed two people in my life: my father and my piano teacher, who was a lifelong friend.
So, on Facebook (which is lame in so many ways, but is really my only means of constant, reliable contact with my family and friends when I am on the other side of the world) I am a 'member' of a group dedicated to finding a cure for SLE. Yesterday, on my FB homepage, I saw a message asking members of the SLE group to petition Congress for more research funding. They provided links on how to contact your senators and representatives. I was the first to post, and I said, "I disagree with governments funding research. Sorry, I won't be calling."
Holy cats, did the insults fly! I was told that I if someone I love is ever afflicted with lupus, I would have a different opinion. I was called selfish, droll, misinformed, uneducated and pretentious.
I then stated that two people very close to me died from lupus, and that the reason I want the government out of the funding of research, is because I want a cure to be found, not because I don't want a cure to be found.
Well, then I was called self-centered, selfish, negative, heartless, uneducated (again) and delusional. It was also implied that I was lying about my father and friend dying of lupus.
One of the things I mentioned was that a cure was found for polio without a single nickle of government money. In fact, I mentioned it twice, and no one took notice. If these people are 'average' Americans, then I must conclude that the average American cannot understand how medical research can possibly be done absent government funding.
I have two questions:
1) Is it true that the research that led to the polio vaccine was totally unfunded by government? I heard that somewhere, and I haven't seen anything that refutes it.
2a) Should I have handled this differently? Other than not engaging these people at all, is there something I could have said that would have made at least some of them see my point of view?
2b) Is there an article on the economics of medical funding from a free market perspective? I found one, but it was in a scholarly journal, and it was way over my head.
One possible error I made was when one lady, who claimed to have a master's degree in psychology, declared me to be "delusional." My response would have been more suitable in the context of a chat room:
Nicole, if you have a master's degree in psychology, and you declared me to be delusional based on one post on the internet, it means that either:1) you are lying and don't actually have a degree in psychology or...2) psychology is an idiotic pseudo-science or...3) you are a shit psychologist
That thread petered out. Here is a link to another on the same FB page, asking if we (the members of the group) contacted our congressmen. On this one I have also made a comment that, I am sure, will be met with the same attacks as the previous one.
Read my Nolan Chart column "Me & My Big Mouth"
Kakugo:There were even talks of "cancer vaccines" for some particular tumors. Forty years later all that's left is a dubious and potentially harmful vaccine against Human Papilloma Virus (HPV): it's supposed to prevent radically reduce risk of cervical cancer in women if administered at an early age but given the fact medical trials have been run on adult subjects this claim has been often questioned.
Kakugo -
What if complete prevention of most common 'male' and 'female' cancers were as simple as bioidentical hormones? What if that option already exists?
"Oh, I wish I could pray the way this dog looks at the meat" - Martin Luther
McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations. The March of Dimes is not an agency. It is a charity. Politicians, including FDR, encouraged their constituents to donate to the March of Dimes. This does not, in any sense, amount to government funding. but who helps support march of dimes? http://www.marchofdimes.com/855_8891.asp That the March of Dimes is funded by government today is irrelevant to the point being discussed here.
LoyalistRevolt: McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations. The March of Dimes is not an agency. It is a charity. Politicians, including FDR, encouraged their constituents to donate to the March of Dimes. This does not, in any sense, amount to government funding. but who helps support march of dimes? http://www.marchofdimes.com/855_8891.asp
McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations. The March of Dimes is not an agency. It is a charity. Politicians, including FDR, encouraged their constituents to donate to the March of Dimes. This does not, in any sense, amount to government funding.
LoyalistRevolt: Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations.
Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations.
The March of Dimes is not an agency. It is a charity. Politicians, including FDR, encouraged their constituents to donate to the March of Dimes. This does not, in any sense, amount to government funding.
but who helps support march of dimes?
http://www.marchofdimes.com/855_8891.asp
That the March of Dimes is funded by government today is irrelevant to the point being discussed here.
http://www.amazon.com/First-Vaccine-Milestones-Modern-Science/dp/083685862X
I can't find my copy so I can't really quote any of it but I can paraphrase, describes how the polio vaccine was so obviously funded by the government not entirely though, which is what I said in my original post. I'll look for it some more and see If I can get you some facts.
LoyalistRevolt: McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: McDuffie: LoyalistRevolt: Ever heard of march of dimes? It was an an agency created when Roosevelt was in office to find a polio vaccination for children. Funded Jonas Salk who was the creator of the vaccinations. The March of Dimes is not an agency. It is a charity. Politicians, including FDR, encouraged their constituents to donate to the March of Dimes. This does not, in any sense, amount to government funding. but who helps support march of dimes? http://www.marchofdimes.com/855_8891.asp That the March of Dimes is funded by government today is irrelevant to the point being discussed here. http://www.amazon.com/First-Vaccine-Milestones-Modern-Science/dp/083685862X I can't find my copy so I can't really quote any of it but I can paraphrase, describes how the polio vaccine was so obviously funded by the government not entirely though, which is what I said in my original post. I'll look for it some more and see If I can get you some facts.
If I am wrong, I want to know. I appreciate your effort.
Don't you think that there would have been at least one single news story on google news archives between 1938 and 1951 about the government subsidizing March of Dimes if it had actually happened? I would say yes, yet I turned up no such story, and I read all of them.
McDuffie: ama gi:Which brings me to question two, or why the hell you feel the need to debate people on facebook, of all places. Personally, I have a facebook account, but I have NEVER once used it to promote some variety of market liberalism or engage in a tirade like the one I just did. My facebook account, after all, has my real name and photograph, and friends who know me personally. Mises.org is a much safer place to have this kind of discussion, away from the prying eyes of girlfriends or potential employers. ????
ama gi:Which brings me to question two, or why the hell you feel the need to debate people on facebook, of all places. Personally, I have a facebook account, but I have NEVER once used it to promote some variety of market liberalism or engage in a tirade like the one I just did. My facebook account, after all, has my real name and photograph, and friends who know me personally. Mises.org is a much safer place to have this kind of discussion, away from the prying eyes of girlfriends or potential employers.
????
I take the opposite approach. What's the point in believing in something if you won't stick to it? I have many people on my facebook account and I'm always bashing statism and interventionism. It's probably lost me a few "Friends" but it's been worth it. I've gathered the attention of a few people from time to time and got them to think or be skeptical here and there. I'm not embarrassed or afraid to be who I am.
So I'm not the only one who has been called names by people I personally know. ;) They usually back down and concede things when you show you've put much more thought into the subject than they have. Although there are a couple marxists who I just can't knock any sense into... they use phrases like "unemployed worker" lol.
LoyalistRevolt: Again in this realm of research you can't use and economic analogy.
Again in this realm of research you can't use and economic analogy.
I'm reading all these Facebook comments, and it's cracking me up. Great job Steve.
Jason: I'm reading all these Facebook comments, and it's cracking me up. Great job Steve.
I decided to read it to.
People don't realize taxation is theft. Knowing this fact, the cries of people asking for the government funding to fund research on a disease they have is akin to saying "I want X, and I'll have Y steal it for me"
Why does one person or group's suffering take precedence over the suffering of some people who are silent, or who don't have the political power to steal for their own ends?
Facebook discussion is nothing more then a cramped space of self-appointed know it alls who like breathing their hot breath in your face.
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
Andrew Cain: Facebook discussion is nothing more then a cramped space of self-appointed know it alls who like breathing their hot breath in your face.
Pretty much why I stick to people who have known to have had an open mind from time to time. I usually ignore the rest, and the noise goes away. :)
Giant_Joe: Andrew Cain: Facebook discussion is nothing more then a cramped space of self-appointed know it alls who like breathing their hot breath in your face. Pretty much why I stick to people who have known to have had an open mind from time to time. I usually ignore the rest, and the noise goes away. :)
I even find it beneficial to debate with closed-minded people sometimes, as long as you can keep your cool and stick to sound, logical arguments. Staying away from ad hominems (especially when your opponent is using them) and debating effectively goes a long way toward igniting curiosity and thought in anyone who happens to be caught reading it. In other words, don't consider just who you're debating, but also who may end up reading the debate.
Life and reality are neither logical nor illogical; they are simply given. But logic is the only tool available to man for the comprehension of both.—Ludwig von Mises
Life and reality are neither logical nor illogical; they are simply given. But logic is the only tool available to man for the comprehension of both.
This is perhaps the best (and only) reason to engage the "enemy".
Mama always told me to wear clean underwear in case I got into a gunfight with the government.