Can't hack it in the real world... join the army!

liberty student:

ChaseCola:

 I doubt there have been many cases of the innocents shooting at marines and it is extremely unlikely I will ever have to raid the house of an innocent at the point when I join, otherwise I wouldn't. And 2 or 3 innocents vs. a platoon of marines, yea you would have to have an IQ under 1. 

Are you kidding me?  How do you think that over 100 thousand Iraqis are dead, and only 4,000 Americans?

This forum needs an ignore feature.  It's your free choice to join the military, but your ignorance and willful denial makes me feel ill.

 

 I am refering to it not happening to me specifically. As for the thousands of dead Iraqis most of that is from insurgent and american bombs. The hypothetical I am refering to is the situation where an innocent Iraqi will shoot when a group of marines entering his/her house.

1)Iraqi soldiers now do most of the house to house searches.

2) As in the US when ATF or DEA or IRS conducts raids 99% of the time the innocents will not fire back, because they want to live.

So no, his hypothetical is not likely to occur to me in the future.

Jesus H., it's like talking to a wall. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you self-serving denial at its finest! Step right up and poke it with a stick! Ignore feature indeed!

So, how 'bout them Dodgers?

Len Budney:

Anonynmous, the problem is that we can't tell whether you understand the difference between defense and aggression. You say Iraq was "unneccesary," but what about Vietnam? Korea? WWI? The Spanish-American war? The war of 1812? The Barbary War? The current US occupation of over 140 countries? In your last post you refer to "death squads," and anyone in his right mind supports resisting those--but in earlier posts you endorsed the cold war.

It all adds up to a distinct impression that you don't grasp the difference between offensive and defensive war.

--Len

I was making no value judgment but merely listing my 'crimes' to determine which was punishable by the death penalty.

Turns out I was guilty of collective crimes though, guilt by association as it were.

And just for the record I find all war offensive. Maybe we need a law or something...

You do realize that in the 140 countries the US is occupying the vast majority of the 'occupation force' is embassy guards, right?

Oh hell...there's my true pro-militarism fascist spirit showing through again...I was making up that embassy guards part, they are really shock troops ready to put down any anti-US Empire protests at a moments notice and pave the way for a proper invasion if they country votes against the US in any critical UN vote.

Anonymous coward, you should really join fascism.org - you'll feel at home there.

I think that's unfair Juan.  This is precisely why it is so hard to recruit people.  You expect instant attitude changes, and when that doesn't happen, it's insults and attacks.

I appreciate your moral superiority, but not your arrogance.

 

I don't think I have any moral superiority, but I do think that being mad at somebody who just keeps on spouting war propaganda is legitimate.

Militarty jobs are not "necessary", and the argument that they are is laughable.  I see no reason in the United States why state militias are not enough of a defense.

The U.S. military has done nothing but oppress and kill others, for no good reason, in all of its "glorious" history. 

I am sorry to say it, but yes, military jobs are parasitic jobs.  We would do better off paying people in the military to just sit around and watch television at home.

Spideynw:

We would do better off paying peopel in the military to just sit around and watch television at home.

But...But... Then The Terrorists Would Bomb Us To Kingdom Come!  Think of the children!!!

 

Nitroadict:

But...But... Then The Terrorists Would Bomb Us To Kingdom Come!  Think of the children!!!

 

And I love how these people have no evidence that everything out military has done has made us any safer.

 I said defence was a necassary not our military, I agree 100% it would be better to pay the military to do nothing, we would be a lot safer. 

Juan:

I don't think I have any moral superiority, but I do think that being mad at somebody who just keeps on spouting war propaganda is legitimate.

Mad at little ol' me? Say it isn't so.

Admit it, you want to hit me don't you? It would also be fair to say 'we'd be fighting' isn't it?

Oh man, this is almost as fun as baiting socialists.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm going to hell.

But y'all see how that works don't you, it's not enough to just make a point and defend it the key is to get your opponent to prove your point for you.

So Juan, I apologize for toying with you to prove a point, low hanging fruit and all that. No hard feelings, mate?

Just to clear up a few things...

No I wouldn't join the military knowing what I know now.

No I don't believe in the use of force other than in self defense.

No I don't believe that the State having a monopoly on the use of force is anything but bad.

Yes I do take offense at people who know nothing about the subject reducing people who act in good faith according to their own moral code to parasites.

Yes I do know I'm an @sshole.

Maybe I'll take your advise and go troll some fascists, that sounds fun. They got a forum over there?

Anonymous Coward:

Admit it, you want to hit me don't you?

I don't. I think you are drunk or out of your mind some way or another(No, I'm not insulting you but stating a fact)

the key is to get your opponent to prove your point for you.

I don't mind admitting I don't understand what you are saying. What point do you think I proved (making a fool of myself, I suppose) for you ?

So Juan, I apologize for toying with you to prove a point

What point ?

Yes I do take offense at people who know nothing about the subject reducing people who act in good faith according to their own moral code to parasites.

You still don't get it ? Amazing.

Maybe I'll take your advise and go troll some fascists, that sounds fun. They got a forum over there?

I suggest you re-enlist.

Dude, seriously, you need to get over yourself.

Let me spell it out for you;

1st post = flame bait

2nd post = gasoline

Of course I get it.

You and certain others feel the need to classify people who don't believe in things the same way as you into neat little groups in order to reinforce your superiority over them and throw around ad hominem attacks instead of engaging them in a constructive manner as individuals.

Think about that for a second, if you don't know why they believe in what they do how are you going to point out the flaws in their logic and hopefully convince them that yours is the better way?

This is what I take offense to not some slight against the US military.

Now the question becomes do you get it?

Anonymous Coward:

You and certain others feel the need to classify people who don't believe in things the same way as you into neat little groups in order to reinforce your superiority over them and throw around ad hominem attacks instead of engaging them in a constructive manner as individuals.

Not so much people who believe differently, but those who do differently. Hell, I don't know that anyone here (well, maybe someone) will condemn someone as being Satan incarnate for having been in the military while still under the influence of their programming. However, when someone is here and they should know better, they should know that they were a dupe, and a parasite, and at least an accomplice to murder, they should the condemn the institution that duped them into being such, and recognize the wretched nature of those still in those institutions and the wickedness they do. Instead, you make excuses. You don't want to think of yourself as a parasite, an accomplice to murder, and a dupe. Yet so long as you deny it, you are still this last one, and your rage and shame is insufficient to the part you played.

Anonymous Coward:

Think about that for a second, if you don't know why they believe in what they do how are you going to point out the flaws in their logic and hopefully convince them that yours is the better way?

This is what I take offense to not some slight against the US military.

Now the question becomes do you get it?

It does not matter why. For so long as they are in the military and in compliance with their orders, any man is justified in killing any one of them. How can you be other than justified in stopping a known murderer or accomplice to murder? That I doubt anyone here actually goes around killing soldiers is only because of the psychological and practical limitations we humans have. Non-military folk, like myself, are not trained to take killing lightly. Nor are we prepared, as yet, to face the forces of our oppressors. Nor, indeed, should we be without sympathy, even for the murderous, wretched dupes that are soldiers. As Jesus was said to have said, "They know not what they do." Pity these pathetic creatures, with their shorn hair and their little matching outfits. Even those whose minds are still tainted, like yours, may one day see the light, and become ever more valuable in the fight for true liberty as you seek desperately your redemption.

Apparently, I wax a bit florid as the evening progresses. Geez.

Mr. Coward:

You and certain others feel the need to classify people who don't believe in things the same way as you into neat little groups in order to reinforce your superiority over them

Haha, 'dude', I find cheap psychologizing especially ridiculous - I suggest you don't bother trying to imagine what I think, or feel - you're not good at guessing.

Think about that for a second, if you don't know why they believe in what they do how are you going to point out the flaws in their logic and hopefully convince them that yours is the better way?

Well, mr. professor in reverse psychology, how did your awesome technique work with ChaseCola ?

Now, YOU think for a second. You apparently are trying to teach me how to 'convince' people, but the method you are using with me is even more dismissive than my method. You're not very consistent, are you ?

Finally, notice that when pointing out flaws in logical thinking, the reason why people hold such beliefs is irrelevant.

This is what I take offense to not some slight against the US military.

Does what I say offend you ? That's weird. Well, maybe some law should be passed to protect your delicate sensitivities ?

Now the question becomes do you get it?

Do I get why you do the stupid things you did ? No, I don't. And I wasn't the only one who was caught by your baiting - if it was actually baiting.

ps: the fact remains, people who "Can't hack it in the real world... join the army".

Oh my...

A couple so called libertarians presiding over a virtual kangaroo court handing down death sentences. Now that's a sight to behold.

Which begs the question, who the hell are you people to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? You don't know me. Where do you derive this right to call for my death? Where do you derive the right to tell me how I should deal with whatever I may have done in the military?

Like I was saying about people who have no idea what they are talking about.

I'll be damed if I'm going to confess my sins in front of you two yahoos in order to join your holier than thou club. That's between myself and whichever deity draws the short straw and gets to pass judgment over my sorry carcass.

Libertarians my ass.

Since you want to get all Jesus like, how about this one;

Let he without sin cast the first stone

I'll be waiting...

Anonymous Coward:

A couple so called libertarians presiding over a virtual kangaroo court handing down death sentences. Now that's a sight to behold.

Which begs the question, who the hell are you people to tell me what I should or shouldn't do? You don't know me. Where do you derive this right to call for my death? Where do you derive the right to tell me how I should deal with whatever I may have done in the military?

I never said anyone should pursue retroactive justice, or anything that a court would deal with up front. No, I only stated what a man of good conscience could be justified in doing, knowing what your role would be. Well, not you, you're out now, so no one should take any such action against you. Your crimes are past, and cannot be undone.

As for who I am, I am just a man who looked in on a conversation, and saw another man mocking and baiting others, trying desperately to avoid the realization of the magnitude of his shame. So pathetic...

Anonymous Coward:

I'll be damed if I'm going to confess my sins in front of you two yahoos in order to join your holier than thou club. That's between myself and whichever deity draws the short straw and gets to pass judgment over my sorry carcass.

Confession is not necessary. However, your defense of your actions or of those who do or plan to take similar ones perpetuates your crime. That should stop.

Anonymous Coward:

Libertarians my ass.

Since you want to get all Jesus like, how about this one;

Let he without sin cast the first stone

I'll be waiting...

I never said anything that even implied I thought your freedoms should be restricted, or that you should be punished, but by your own conscience, if that was not burned out of you by your masters. As for the casting of stones... I never volunteered to kill for the sake of a politician's agenda. You cannot say the same.

This thread is a bad example of how to recruit libertarians and to spread a philosphy of peace, justice and understanding.

Interrogation and shock tactics are not in good faith.

I've never found berating someone publicly to be more effective than patience and reason.

 

liberty student:

This thread is a bad example of how to recruit libertarians and to spread a philosphy of peace, justice and understanding.

Interrogation and shock tactics are not in good faith.

I've never found berating someone publicly to be more effective than patience and reason.

 

Really? I just see it as another example of extrapolating a trend based a few individual's responses.

  

Ok, this thread HAS BECOME a bad example bla bla blabla.

 

Anonymous Coward:

A couple so called libertarians presiding over a virtual kangaroo court handing down death sentences.

I'd love to understand your 'logic'. Millions of people have been massacred by the military - but that doesn't seem to bother you much. However, If I express my belief that people who have no respect for their fellows' lives, i.e. soldiers, deserve death, then it turns out, I am at fault.

Please explain : Why do you tolerate mass killings in the name of the state but can't stand a couple of post in a forum ? Does your position make any sense at all ?

edit:

Where do you derive this right to call for my death?

I have the right to think and say whatever I please - it's called a natural right...or something.

liberty student:

This thread is a bad example of how to recruit libertarians and to spread a philosphy of peace, justice and understanding.

Meh.

You folks would be better off without the likes of me.

Now to figure out what the going rate for a mises.org account tainted by the blood of millions of innocent people goes for on ebay...