https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=36028082&postID=6779995346649223246
Near the end, we focus on capital theory.
Am I right that a vaccum cleaner is capital? Is there a grain of truth in what the socialists claim about capital?
Schools are labour camps.
Laughing Man:One of their lovely contradictions.
One good contradiction is when Orwell showed how the state is bad, but denied that he was attacking socialism. But logically, he was showing how it failed.
Laughing Man: Stranger:Those would be more accurately described as 'monopolists'. According to Marxist theory, capitalism leads to monopoly.
Stranger:Those would be more accurately described as 'monopolists'.
According to Marxist theory, capitalism leads to monopoly.
It would if it were monopolistic. If you can get infinite government bail-outs, pretty soon you will own the entire market.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
Laughing man:One of their lovely contradictions. For some bizzaro reason [or lack of] they believe that public monopolies are somehow just and private monopolies unjust. It is almost utilitarian in a way.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Stranger: It would if it were monopolistic. If you can get infinite government bail-outs, pretty soon you will own the entire market.
A point you should express to the Marxists.
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
Don't forget (and this is of paramount importance!) that all capital goods are the product of one's labor.
So much for the socialist cry, that he should receive the full product of his labor. Now, if he must receive the product of his labor (setting aside the qualifier "full" which was aptly torpedoed by Eugen Bohm-Bawerk in C & I) then he may certainly accumulate capital. Surely then, anyone who tries to deprive the producer of his product, should be viewed as a thief, an undesirable. Therefore, the mere fact that the product of my labor differs in some subjective way (i.e., someone deems it to be a "capital" good) does not by itself, constitute any justifiable reason for depriving me of my control/ownership thereof.
That is the 30-second demolition of Das Kapital. (Thanks to Thorsmitresaw on Youtube for pointing that one out.)
============================
David Z
"The issue is always the same, the government or the market. There is no third solution."
david_z:That is the 30-second demolition of Das Kapital. (Thanks to Thorsmitresaw on Youtube for pointing that one out.)
Excellent. Thanks DZ.
eliotn:Is there a grain of truth in what the socialists claim about capital?
Do they believe that tripe, yes, does belief make things true, no....
It sounds like the ocean, smells like fresh mountain air, and tastes like the union of peanut butter and chocolate. ~Liberty Student
The worst part was this quote:
"As you will see, we hold that it is the class division and profit motive of capitalism that is at the root of most of the world's problems today, from starvation to war, to alienation and crime. Every aspect of our lives is subordinated to the worst excesses of the drive to make profit. In capitalist society, our real needs will only ever come a poor second to the requirements of profit."
Do they actually believe this crap?
I found this website, and found this:
"It is also possible (at least in theory) to have a free market economy that is not capitalist. Such a 'market economy' would involve farmers, artisans and shopkeepers each producing a particular product that they would exchange via the medium of money. There would be no profit-making and no class division—just independent producers exchanging goods for their mutual benefit. But it is doubtful whether such an economy has ever existed."
LULZ.
http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/what_is_capitalism.php
eliotn:"As you will see, we hold that it is the class division and profit motive of capitalism that is at the root of most of the world's problems today, from starvation to war, to alienation and crime. Every aspect of our lives is subordinated to the worst excesses of the drive to make profit. In capitalist society, our real needs will only ever come a poor second to the requirements of profit."
Ignoring that profits are what pay for needs...
eliotn:"It is also possible (at least in theory) to have a free market economy that is not capitalist. Such a 'market economy' would involve farmers, artisans and shopkeepers each producing a particular product that they would exchange via the medium of money. There would be no profit-making and no class division—just independent producers exchanging goods for their mutual benefit. But it is doubtful whether such an economy has ever existed."
Yes in Oz, until the lollypop guild started roughing up the works....