What literature, persons, 'things' influenced you into being interested into Austrian Economics.
Guys, if you have a GF and can speak somewhat on their behalf your feedback is appreciated!
-Cliff
Peter Schiff and Ron Paul.
Woops.... I'm not a female.
My wife hates it when I start rambling about economics and government. She rather watch Survivor or Gossip Girls. She came from a very Liberal family. I am wearing off on her.
bearing01: Peter Schiff and Ron Paul. Woops.... I'm not a female. My wife hates it when I start rambling about economics and government. She rather watch Survivor or Gossip Girls. She came from a very Liberal family. I am wearing off on her.
Ask her if she supports the government taking away a portion of your income. If she says "yes," then for Christmas tell her, "I would have bought you a better present, but the government took my money."
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
I don't think there's any particular reason to infer the opposite sex will have reasons or influences guiding them to AE or libertarianism diametrically different from "us guys."
Having said that, a girl I know and am pretty close to told me she got into this stuff after reading Murray Rothbard's "What has Government done to our money?" after finding it on a homeschool curriculum.
I would reason a hell of a lot of girls and guys found out through Ron Paul...
"When the King is far the people are happy." Chinese proverb
For Alexander Zinoviev and the free market there is a shared delight:
"Where there are problems there is life."
Is it me, or are the Mises forums kind of a sauagefest?
Periodically the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.
Thomas Jefferson
abskebabs: I don't think there's any particular reason to infer the opposite sex will have reasons or influences guiding them to AE or libertarianism diametrically different from "us guys."
I agree. I don't think there would be any real difference.
abskebabs: I would reason a hell of a lot of girls and guys found out through Ron Paul...
I did, hehe...
Wanderer: Is it me, or are the Mises forums kind of a sauagefest?
Bell Curve!
http://mises.org/media/1453
I think internet forums are pretty generally sausagefests. Still a lot tend to be much duller than this forum. Indeed I can't stand anymore most of the people who post on the one I used to contribute to.
They are comparatively few, but the Mises Circles and other libertarian conferences generally attract some very cute girls. I mean, there's like five compared to one hundred dudes, but if you think about it most guys are older, so your odds are better than what you might think.
Wanderer: abskebabs: I would reason a hell of a lot of girls and guys found out through Ron Paul... I did, hehe...
You would swear that he's actually Neo.
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I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books. So I told her I'll read all seven books if she reads one book of my choosing. She's pressuring me to hurry and pick one for her.
I want to get her into AE, so which book should I choose? I kind of want to have her read Human Action. I figured since I'm reading SEVEN books, I should have her read something that'll take her at least half the time it takes me to read those. What do you guys recommend?
If she's an economics major, I would choose something like Human Action. On the other hand, a book like de Soto's Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles might be easier to read (the language is more modern), and is pretty powerful and persuasive in its own right (even if it's less complete, as it is not a treatise on economics). But, if she likes de Soto's book, maybe she'd be willing to read Human Action afterwards.
Le Master: I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books.
I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books.
Uh, I hate reading fiction...
Le Master: I want to get her into AE, so which book should I choose? I kind of want to have her read Human Action. I figured since I'm reading SEVEN books, I should have her read something that'll take her at least half the time it takes me to read those. What do you guys recommend?
Well, that sucks, if she had to read 7 then that would be a lot better. But, idk, perhaps Man, Economy, and State by Murray Rothbard?
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I don't know how long the books she recommended are in total numbers of pages, but I think Human Action is a fair match since its not a trivial thing to read, especially compared to Harry Potter and similiar fiction books.
Human Action, more than anything else has convinced me of the Austrian case, so I'd recommend it but you'll have to judge for yourself if its the kind of book that would suit your GF. I myself came from a physicsy background as opposed to economics, and hence was vearing towards positivism...then Von Mises hit me for a home run!
My world view has not been the same since
de Soto is a good idea. But I think I'll try to get her to read that after MES or HA. So I think it's going to be between the latter two. MES reads more like an economics textbook and she might take in everything more easily in it. HA, however, is HA. It'd be difficult for one to read it and not become an Austrian. Which should it be, guys? This is hard.
Ship her ass off to a communist country for a few years... she will get the hint really quick...
It sounds like the ocean, smells like fresh mountain air, and tastes like the union of peanut butter and chocolate. ~Liberty Student
How else is she politically inclined? Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged?
Otherwise... definitely Man, Economy and State WITH Power and Market
Le Master:I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books. So I told her I'll read all seven books if she reads one book of my choosing. She's pressuring me to hurry and pick one for her.
Make a deal. She reads MES or HA. You read HP. Though I would recomend the Wheel of Time series instead.
A)Still I find this threads topic to be an important one. An army of female AE followers would be a devistating force to reckon with. Us guys know how much of a force a single girl alone is. :p
B) I want to explore ways of getting my own GF interested in this.
My girlfriend of eight years is a libertarian. She understands the principles and thinks they are good way to live. She has some very minor disagreements, but that could be her projecting. She is usually quite indifferent to politics as she never felt voting or campaigning ever helped make people free, only piss freedom loving people off. of course, she may end up being a libertarian-anarchist if i keep it up.
She doesn't have any interest in learning economics. she's an artist, she can paint, draw, whatever. she makes a living as a graphic designer for a web firm, she also has a side job as a photographer. i've been using her new side job as a self-employed professional photographer to see how economics works for her. she likes it, but i doubt it'll get her to care enough to read any of my economic books. hell, i haven't read'em all yet.
you know, i haven't really tried to get her to read any of the books.. but i bet if she read 'economics in one lesson' or 'economics for real people', she might like those. a basic understanding of how economics works.
You observe, but you do not see.
Le Master: Which should it be, guys? This is hard.
Le Master:I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books. So I told her I'll read all seven books if she reads one book of my choosing. She's pressuring me to hurry and pick one for her. I want to get her into AE, so which book should I choose? I kind of want to have her read Human Action. I figured since I'm reading SEVEN books, I should have her read something that'll take her at least half the time it takes me to read those. What do you guys recommend?
Capital Pumper: Unless you want her head full of anarchist strawmen, I suggest putting the HA on hold.
Unless you want her head full of anarchist strawmen, I suggest putting the HA on hold.
He never strawmanned anarchism. The meanings of words change. He wrote "Human Action" fifty years ago.
If I wrote it more than a few weeks ago, I probably hate it by now.
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Daniel: bearing01: My wife hates it when I start rambling about economics and government. She rather watch Survivor or Gossip Girls. She came from a very Liberal family. I am wearing off on her. Ask her if she supports the government taking away a portion of your income. If she says "yes," then for Christmas tell her, "I would have bought you a better present, but the government took my money."
bearing01: My wife hates it when I start rambling about economics and government. She rather watch Survivor or Gossip Girls. She came from a very Liberal family. I am wearing off on her.
For the past year she has been managing a struggling business. I keep tell her about what's coming down the Obama pipe and from her work she now understands the damage that Liberal Socialist gov't does to business. She's no Libertarian, but she is seeing the light. She is not proactive because she feels she can watch crap on TV and I will do the bitching / complaining for both of us. We don't discuss these topics with her family. They live in Canada, where everyone accepts Liberal gov't policy as a way of life, and where US gov't policy isn't high on their give-a-shit list. At least Canadian gov't is resposible in not compounding their debt. Until 2008 they had been running a fiscal surplus and were paying off their debt. All countries with printing presses in sync with the Fed Res., competing to devlalue their currency, now have 2008 fiscal debt.
Conza88:How else is she politically inclined?
The Late Andrew Ryan:Wait a sec this is really spicy right here! Does she know you're an Austrian/Libertarian? What school does she follow/what is she politically? I'd pick Human Action Fo Sho.
She's pretty indifferent to anything politics-related and always avoids discussion of it. Her parents are stereotypical, Newsweek-reading, left-leaning, Chicagoans, so I bet deep down she's probably sympathetic to their views. And, like nearly every other econ major, she's pretty unaware that there even exist various schools of economics and just believes whatever is taught in class (even while I often take nice jabs at Keynesianism and the Chicago school). She's really bright and smart, though, so that's why I want to have her read a book on real economics.
filc:B) I want to explore ways of getting my own GF interested in this.
You ought to make a similar proposition to her.
Harry Felker: Ship her ass off to a communist country for a few years... she will get the hint really quick...
Do my eyes deceive me?
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
Libertarian_for_Life: Le Master: I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books. Uh, I hate reading fiction... Le Master: I want to get her into AE, so which book should I choose? I kind of want to have her read Human Action. I figured since I'm reading SEVEN books, I should have her read something that'll take her at least half the time it takes me to read those. What do you guys recommend?
Get some libertarian fiction.
If she likes SF, try L. Neil Smith, Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", J Neil Shulman, F. Paul Wilson's LaNague works (An Enemy of the State, Wheels Within Wheels, James Hogan (Voyage from Yesteryear), Vernor Vinge's Marooned in Realtime series.
Check out the Libertarian Futurist Society's Promethius Award winners for more ideas.
If she likes Fantasy, try Terry Goodkind's series.
There is also Ayn Rand's fiction, but some get turned off by them. (I actually think Terry Goodkind is a better "Objectivist fiction" writter then Rand in many ways).
emb021: If she likes Fantasy, try Terry Goodkind's series.
Good Lord, NO!
The Sword of Truth series blows, but I was definitely reminded of Atlas Shrugged in that one.. which was it, Faith of the Fallen?
If it had to be just one book, and she HAD to read it, I'd go with For a New Liberty by Rothbard.
bearing01: They live in Canada, where everyone accepts Liberal gov't policy as a way of life, and where US gov't policy isn't high on their give-a-shit list. At least Canadian gov't is resposible in not compounding their debt. Until 2008 they had been running a fiscal surplus and were paying off their debt.
Americans seem to have a passion for demonstrating international ignorance.
Caley McKibbin: bearing01: They live in Canada, where everyone accepts Liberal gov't policy as a way of life, and where US gov't policy isn't high on their give-a-shit list. At least Canadian gov't is resposible in not compounding their debt. Until 2008 they had been running a fiscal surplus and were paying off their debt. Americans seem to have a passion for demonstrating international ignorance.
It's a favorite pastime of ours.
I. Ryan: He never strawmanned anarchism.
He never strawmanned anarchism.
Regardless, the arguments he used, in essence, are a Hobbesian distortion of an entire political philosophy. Clearly, Mises did not know or just omitted his Molinari and Spooner..
I. Ryan: The meanings of words change.
The meanings of words change.
Anarchism is still defined as lawlessness in the common vernacular, except now it's more visually associated with bomb throwers. Notwithstanding that, there are plenty who groan at the fallacy of reducing anarchism to dictionary or hearsay definitions.
I. Ryan: He wrote "Human Action" fifty years ago..
He wrote "Human Action" fifty years ago..
Yeah no... This "product of one's environment" apologia isn't going to fly, since it can't even hold up to the lightest of scrutiny without special pleading.
Capital Pumper: Regardless, the arguments he used, in essence, are a Hobbesian distortion of an entire political philosophy. Clearly, Mises did not know or just omitted his Molinari and Spooner
Regardless, the arguments he used, in essence, are a Hobbesian distortion of an entire political philosophy. Clearly, Mises did not know or just omitted his Molinari and Spooner
1. He wrote "Human Action" fifty years ago, when the word "anarchism", not just among the general public but also among writers, meant "lawlessness". He therefore, when he attacked the idea of "anarchism", attacked the idea that, in a large-scale, lawless region, a market economy would be able to flourish.
2. If he had read and cited Molinari, he would not have described him as an "anarchist". In fact, Molinari himself rejected that term because, during his time, it also meant "lawlessness".
So, no. The reason that you interpret it as a "distortion" of "an entire political philosophy" is because, although the word, "anarchism", is identical between then and now, you have not realized that the referent of the word is different between the usage of it of Mises and the usage of it of Bob Murphy.
there's Americans that think that Obama deserves the Nobel Peace prize and clap when he sends troops to Afghanistan almost in the same breath of admittance. and then there's Americans that don't know who the president is - I kinda think these ones though might be ahead in leaving the government behind and walking away from it all.
demosthenes: The Sword of Truth series blows, but I was definitely reminded of Atlas Shrugged in that one.. which was it, Faith of the Fallen?
What was it that you were reminded by, the torturing of enemies, the execution of prisoners, or the impaling of heads on pikes?
Harry Potter's fun in the most part -- you'll blast through it
You wanna give her something that's self-contained so it makes a strong case on its own, but also something substantial. I can't think of a good answer...
The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.
;)
Le Master: I'm about to do something that I'll probably regret. My girlfriend is an economics major. She's also obsessed with Harry Potter, and she really wants me to read the books. So I told her I'll read all seven books if she reads one book of my choosing. She's pressuring me to hurry and pick one for her. I want to get her into AE, so which book should I choose? I kind of want to have her read Human Action. I figured since I'm reading SEVEN books, I should have her read something that'll take her at least half the time it takes me to read those. What do you guys recommend?
For all 7 books of Potter, at least Man, Economy, and State with Power & Market. There is no other more comprehensive and effective Austrian economics book out there.
DD5:For all 7 books of Potter, at least Man, Economy, and State with Power & Market. There is no other more comprehensive and effective Austrian economics book out there.
Yep, what might be useful:
Harry Potter books - total pages: 4,224
Man, Economy and State with Power and Market: 1,441
In MES, you actually have to think... so in my opinion thats pretty fair lol
I believe they have a precious metal commodity system in Harry Potter with a 100% reserve [:-P]
I'm a big fan of Harry Potter. Definitely the most libertarian fairy tale series. None of that glory for the king crap here.