http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQhAhJdhXzQ&feature=player_embedded
Kind of sad and strange. To me, there is a hint of geopolitical motives but that is always there when I hear this kind of news.
it's interesting to see when people cry when their oppressors die. Kinda like Stockholm Syndrome. I understand their families though. It's a tragedy for them.
(english is not my native language, sorry for grammar.)
Cui Bono?
It's always a tragedy when people die. But then again, these were nothing more than leaders of the state who lived on the stolen incomes of the Polish people. So I'm pretty much indifferent.
Political Atheists Blog
If I well remember the polish brothers had always been strong advocates of a weak EU, instead of a centralized super-state as per France and Germany. Perhaps they just gave the message to his surviving brother as well as to other would-be decentralizers (the Czech president and especially Farage’s UKIP readily come to mind) not to speak too loud now that financially the shit will be hitting the fan. So they have the polish guy over Russia to make them look like the badies. This was my very first though when I heard of the thing.
The President of Poland and President of the Central Bank dead? Want to reform the currency, huh?
Hmmmmm...
I guess George Soros had enough of this guy...
Looks like they were stupid and tried to land the plane with low visibility.
Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
bloomj31:Looks like they were stupid and tried to land the plane with low visibility. Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
You actually saw it? "Looks like they were..."
wilderness: You actually saw it? "Looks like they were..."
No, but I don't tend to believe in conspiracies and the reports state that they tried to land several times in an area with low visibility even after air traffic controllers warned them against it. Sounds like incompetence to me. Certainly worthy of an investigation but obviously there will always be people who are quick to see malevolence in anything. Sometimes they're right, usually they're just paranoid.
bloomj31:Certainly worthy of an investigation...
Before coming to your conclusions I think heeding your own advice here is probably best.
wilderness: Before coming to your conclusions I think heeding your own advice here is probably best.
I haven't come to any conclusions. I'm just saying that as a rule I tend to assume that things like this are just a combination of bad luck and bad decision making. We shall see what becomes of this.
bloomj31: wilderness:Before coming to your conclusions I think heeding your own advice here is probably best. I haven't come to any conclusions. I'm just saying that as a rule I tend to assume that things like this are just a combination of bad luck and bad decision making. We shall see what becomes of this.
wilderness:Before coming to your conclusions I think heeding your own advice here is probably best.
ok bloom. you're ruled assumptions are not drawn conclusions that you tend to have about things like this.
wilderness: you're ruled assumptions are not drawn conclusions that you tend to have about things like this.
you're ruled assumptions are not drawn conclusions that you tend to have about things like this.
what?
bloomj31:I haven't come to any conclusions. I'm just saying that as a rule I tend to assume that things like this are just a combination of bad luck and bad decision making. We shall see what becomes of this.
Quite the opposite.
Seph: Quite the opposite.
What do you mean?
bloomj31: wilderness: Before coming to your conclusions I think heeding your own advice here is probably best. I haven't come to any conclusions. I'm just saying that as a rule I tend to assume that things like this are just a combination of bad luck and bad decision making. We shall see what becomes of this.
Yeah, it isnt because the President of Poland and the President of the Central Bank in Poland had decided to weaken the Polish currency instead of being forced into the Euro like how George Soros had it planned, right?
Gipper: Yeah, it isnt because the President of Poland and the President of the Central Bank in Poland had decided to weaken the Polish currency instead of being forced into the Euro like how George Soros had it planned, right?
Again, I'm not big on conspiracy theories and I have seen no evidence that this was a premeditated event.
But maybe it will turn out that it was premeditated. I have no idea. But I'm going to wait to see the proof.
bloomj31: Seph: Quite the opposite. What do you mean?
That state sponsored false flag events are altogether commonplace, and suggesting otherwise is just plain wrong.
I'm not suggesting that this must be a conspiracy (although it certainly looks like it) , just that automatically supporting the state's version of events is probably the exact opposite of what should be done.
Seph: That state sponsored false flag events are altogether commonplace, and suggesting otherwise is just plain wrong. I'm not suggesting that this must be a conspiracy (although it certainly looks like it) , just that automatically supporting the state's version of events is probably the exact opposite of what should be done.
I'm not automatically supporting anything, I'm just suspending judgment until other facts are known. I have no reason to believe that this was not an accident.
frankly it doesnt surprise me. russia has plane three accidents a year, minimum. plus a dozen of terror attacks and derailings. russia is to publish safety what US is to public education
President of Poland isn't a very important position. They have a prime minister.
The loss of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is probably most significant, but I wouldn't read too much into it unless someone was planning an imminent military attack on Poland, and if they were, the Polish Joint Chiefs would not be the greatest obstacle to an attack on a NATO country.
The Russians had advised the plane to land at Moscow or Minsk because of heavy fog, but it looks like the President didn't care about aviation safety and ordered the pilot to land anyway because he didn't want to be late for the Katyn ceremony, and the pilot complied because the last pilot who diverted the plane was court-martialed. He crashed on the fourth landing attempt.
so the plane didn't crash because mechanical failure
Now an interesting question in regard to this would be.. Did the high officials morally deserve to die.. had they given up their right to life through their actions? Judging by Rothbard's proportional punishment principle and the things the guys had done that would be the case.
nandnor: Now an interesting question in regard to this would be.. Did the high officials morally deserve to die.. had they given up their right to life through their actions? Judging by Rothbard's proportional punishment principle and the things the guys had done that would be the case.
Fully agree.
I dunno, that's between them and God now.
great, lets start dropping teachers and dmv workers. hey, they lived on stolen funds.
garegin: great, lets start dropping teachers and dmv workers. hey, they lived on stolen funds.
Many teachers advocate theft and kidnapping. That is, many teachers want the state to tax people (theft) and take kids away from their parents so that the kids can be incarcerated in schools (kidnapping).
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
Lol, good luck with that.
you have to put ethics in a cultural context. if you grew up in a culture where kidnapping brides was the norm, you wouldnt think twice about doing it. yes, every person is given mental faculties to make ethical choices for herself, but judging teachers who advocate rights violations is applying standards that they are unaware of.
garegin: you have to put ethics in a cultural context. if you grew up in a culture where kidnapping brides was the norm, you wouldnt think twice about doing it.
you have to put ethics in a cultural context. if you grew up in a culture where kidnapping brides was the norm, you wouldnt think twice about doing it.
Hasty generalization. People can change. I know plenty of people who grew up with wife-beating dads who would think twice about hitting their wives.
yes, every person is given mental faculties to make ethical choices for herself, but judging teachers who advocate rights violations is applying standards that they are unaware of.
So? If someone from the jungle, who was raised by gorillas, comes to your house and rapes you, is that someone not guilty of rape?
"Hasty generalization. People can change. I know plenty of people who grew up with wife-beating dads who would think twice about hitting their wives."
they live in a culture that considers wife beating violence. the contention is not over them changing their behavior but living with a different set of ethical standards.
"So? If someone from the jungle, who was raised by gorillas, comes to your house and rapes you, is that someone not guilty of rape?"
yes he is, but he is ignorant of his wrongdoing. public teachers are usually upstanding people who would never think that what they do is actually kidnapping and theft.
garegin:"Hasty generalization. People can change. I know plenty of people who grew up with wife-beating dads who would think twice about hitting their wives." they live in a culture that considers wife beating violence.
they live in a culture that considers wife beating violence.
Define the parameters of the "culture." Their household? Their expended family? Their friends at school? Their block? Their neighborhood? Their city? Their state? Their country? Or some other arbitrary standard?
the contention is not over them changing their behavior but living with a different set of ethical standards.
And you implied that that set of ethical standards do not change over time.
"So? If someone from the jungle, who was raised by gorillas, comes to your house and rapes you, is that someone not guilty of rape?" yes he is, but he is ignorant of his wrongdoing. public teachers are usually upstanding people who would never think that what they do is actually kidnapping and theft.
But do you agree that they are still advocating theft and kidnapping?
yes, and must pay back for their crimes if the victims press charges.