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Important: Member Issues Forum and Related New Policy

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Daniel James Sanchez Posted: Sun, May 23 2010 8:28 PM

We've had an interesting set of posts lately.

We've had a non-ancap lecturing ancaps about how they should and should not post to elevate discourse.  In spite of his alleged concern for elevating discourse, he then deems it fit to call LvMI-affiliated people some very ugly names.  After he is temp-banned for doing so, the moderators get called out for censoring him.  Yet in another thread, it is expressed that we are not censoring enough; an ancap would like us to ban "not teachable" people.  This dovetails with a few posters repeatedly, over the past month or so, flaming opinionated non-ancaps, and calling for their banning.

So on one side we're being accused of silencing dissent in order to promote a certain worldview.  And on the other side, we're being asked to silence dissent more, so as to make people of a certain worldview more comfortable.

Let me just say again, contrary to the accusations of former, and the requests of the latter, the moderators do not, and will not, ban or delete posts for ideological reasons.  Yes we do have a mission: to advance the scholarship of liberty in the Austrian tradition.  But advancing a school of though is not the same thing as cosseting it.  In fact the two things are antithetical.  We do not refrain from silencing pro-war or pro-intervention posts in order to be fair to war-mongers and etatists, but rather because the best way to discredit their arguments is to openly, and civilly debate them.  Even if they themselves are "not teachable", then continually refuting them in debate will serve to teach others.

I know this won't convince the people it is primarily addressed to.  And I know the mods, the "accusers", and the "demanders" could go around and around regarding this forever. 

But enough is enough.  I believe there is a silent majority of readers and members out there who are sick of all this.  The value of the forum for people only interested in learning (and not in personality clashes) is severely dilluted by all this moaning and groaning back and forth by certain regulars.  I can only imagine how much of a turn-off it would be to come here interested in learning about Austrianism, and to constantly see "drama posts" at the top of the page.  (Actually, I don't need to imagine; I distinctly remember what it was like being a newbie, and constantly being bombarded by gladiatorial ego clashes.)  

That is why I've created Community group called "Member Issues" for people to vent there.  EDIT: As nirgrahamUK says: to become a member with posting rights; go here: http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/members.aspx

  If you want to call a member out on something, then "take it outside"; meaning, post in the Member Issues forum, and let your adversary know about the post.  That is the one and only place for drama now.  The main forum is reserved for discussions about ideas themselves.  Complaints in the main forum about the members expressing those ideas, and the manner in which they express them, will now be considered off-topic, and deleted.  That includes: accusations of trolling, accusations of dishonesty, accusations of insanity, questioning another person's credentials, and questioning another person's character.

And as always, schoolyard insults are always out of bounds, no mater where they're posted.

Subscribe and unsubscribe as necessary to deal with issues with other members. Subscribe permanently, if you like to tune into member drama. Feel free to stay unsubscribed if you want to tune it out.  But please, let's stop yelling at each other on the forum front page, potentially ruining the learning experience for the silent (or at least less-vocal) majority.

I'm cross-posting this in the Member Issues forum.  If you would like to respond to this new policy, please do so there.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Sieben replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:41 PM

it says i can't reply on the members issue forum..

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to become a member with posting rights; go here :http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/members.aspx

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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We cannot respond to your applied policy in that thread because normal users are restricted from posting there for the time being.

I never thought that we would need a figurative "field of honour" on these forums, but I suppose it may have been inevitable as a greater number and variety of persons come to express their minds. I do applaud the moderators for not wishing to ban persons for dissenting views, or ad hominem attacks either for that matter. It does make much more sense to me in having an area set aside for those too sensitive for civil discourse to settle their disputes, and since it is a permament area I would assume the duels could rage on for as long as the combatants allow themselves. My personal wish is that they forget to post elsewhere while demanding satisfaction from their rivals.

EDIT: Even those who join the Member Issues Group are not allowed to post in that thread.

This is apparently a Man Talk Forum:  No Women Allowed!

Telpeurion's Disliked Person of the Week: David Kramer

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Thanks Nir!  Added that link to the OP...

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Nielsio replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:49 PM

This seems like a good idea.

Is there a way for people to know that this is the new arrangement, when they are new?

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This is a functionally great idea.  I look forward to see how this turns out.  

 

"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict

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Thanks Telpeurion.  I'm trying to figure out how to fix that...

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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bloomj31 replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:54 PM

I like this.  Great idea.

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Snowflake posted so seems ok....

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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ok great!

Telpeurion are you still having trouble?

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Also, is there a way to make the group more visible? Perhaps a separate forum area rather than a group? I assume if you keep it as a member only group hidden away in the depths that each time a fight breaks out a reminder with a link will have to be given.

This is apparently a Man Talk Forum:  No Women Allowed!

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Thanks Nielso, Nitro, and Bloom.

Nielso, that's a good question.  I'll look into that.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Marko replied on Sun, May 23 2010 9:04 PM

Yet in another thread, we get called out, it seems, for not censoring enough; an ancap would like us to ban "not teachable" people.

I was not calling anyone out. I was lobbying.
 

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Okay, I changed the wording to: "Yet in another thread, it is expressed that we are not censoring enough"

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Telpeurion: a good idea for consideration, although I'm not sure, at present, technically how to do that.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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It's a great idea.

Pistols at dawn.

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It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer

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MMMark,

The front page is no longer the place for this kind of thing.  Please move the content of your post to the Member Issues group, and delete the original.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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[Moved to 'issues' group] http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/forum/p/17027/335439.aspx#335439

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

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MMMark replied on Sun, May 23 2010 9:52 PM

Sun. 10/05/23 22:51 EDT
.post #121

The front page is no longer the place for this kind of thing. Please move the content of your post to the Member Issues group, and delete the original.
I tried, and received this message:
Access Denied: Reply Permission Denied
Either the forum does not exist or you do not have permissions to reply to posts within the forum.

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Hi MMMark,

Did you try to join the group using this link? http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/members.aspx

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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I have moved both our posts.

To have write access to the group become a member http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/members.aspx

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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MMMark replied on Sun, May 23 2010 10:09 PM

Sun. 10/05/23 23:08 EDT
.post #122

Hi MMMark,

Did you try to join the group using this link? http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/members.aspx
I just joined, thanks. I suspect that this won't get used too much.

nirgrahamUK:
I have moved both our posts.
Tried to comply; guess I wasn't fast enough.

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