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New Mises forum: must use Facebook. ??

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Nielsio Posted: Fri, Jul 1 2011 3:35 PM

"I'm still working on locking out completely manual signups so that users must create accounts with facebook. " -Israel Curtis

https://groups.google.com/group/misesdev/browse_thread/thread/ee23fb81d142032b?pli=1

 

It seems like one reason for doing that is because they've had problems with spam registrations and postings. But just because the new forum software can't handle spammers very well, doesn't mean you should then force people into using a facebook account.

People who post on forums have a strong need to be able to do it anonymously. Just look at the usernames on this forum. Probably 95%+ are non-real names. And now they think it's a good idea to force people to use their (which they may not even have) Facebook account?

I've lost interest in trying to convince them of different directions, but I would like to post it here and some of you can share your worries/non-worries as well.

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I agree... I dont use facebook and I am not going to make a facebook simply to use the forum.

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boniek replied on Fri, Jul 1 2011 4:30 PM

If they can't handle authentication then why not use openid? Then at least we could choose provider and not be locked into facebook which personally I don't use or care for.

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Conza88 replied on Fri, Jul 1 2011 4:31 PM

It would appear that considering the forum and one reason that people use a different name to their real one... is that they can sign up, be completely ignorant, ask basic questions and give their true thoughts without fear of being attacked for that position, avoiding them thus feeling the need to 'save face' which usually helps avoids cognitive dissonance. They can consider, ponder, leave and respond if they so wish.

Maybe make a simple test for sign up.. "What is the name of the website?" "

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Merlin replied on Fri, Jul 1 2011 4:40 PM

 

I myself will rather give up these forums rather than sign up again for FB. It’s just retarded. 

 

EDIT: If the issue if with using real names, let us be told to change our names into the real thing and get it over with.

The Regression theorem is a memetic equivalent of the Theory of Evolution. To say that the former precludes the free emergence of fiat currencies makes no more sense that to hold that the latter precludes the natural emergence of multicellular organisms.
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I myself will rather give up these forums rather than sign up again for FB.

Exactly.

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Bert replied on Fri, Jul 1 2011 11:39 PM

The ability to be an asshole and hide in obscurity.

I don't really care otherwise.  Again, it's voluntary.  If less people sign up, then they suffer from that choice.  Let's not lose concept of what we discuss and how it's applied to the forum itself.  If people want to use their real names, so be it.  It's not like Jeffrey Tucker is using a fake name when posting articles, nor is my FB under a fake name when I'm posting Mises articles.  I don't know why it's needed to go as far for FB login, but so be it.  In reality I have nothing to hide.  If you're worried someone will stalk your FB, privatize it.  If you don't want to make a FB, I don't blame you.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Bert:
The ability to be an asshole and hide in obscurity.  I don't really care otherwise.  Again, it's voluntary.  If less people sign up, then they suffer from that choice.  Let's not lose concept of what we discuss and how it's applied to the forum itself.  If people want to use their real names, so be it.  It's not like Jeffrey Tucker is using a fake name when posting articles, nor is my FB under a fake name when I'm posting Mises articles.  I don't know why it's needed to go as far for FB login, but so be it.  In reality I have nothing to hide.  If you're worried someone will stalk your FB, privatize it.  If you don't want to make a FB, I don't blame you.

Would you seriously argue that there are no legitimate reasons for wanting anonymity online?  Are you actually going to contend that there is no utility to be had by the group from its members being anonymous?  Everyone just wants to be an asshole, is that it?

 

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Bert replied on Sat, Jul 2 2011 6:58 AM

Can't play devils advocate?

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Marko replied on Sat, Jul 2 2011 7:07 AM

I'm sure they will change their mind. This would be a mistake. A significant chunk of libertarians avoids FB on purpose. Libertarians and Facebook is not a natural combination.

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Generally when people play advocate to the devil, they take an uncommon, contrarian position...not the most obvious one that everyone has more than likely already considered.  But sure.  You can play whatever you want.  But can you answer questions without using questions?

 

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Marko:
Libertarians and Facebook is not a natural combination.

What in the world does that mean?

 

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Bert replied on Sat, Jul 2 2011 7:33 AM

No, I am not argueing there are no legitmate reasons to remain anonymous, to answer your question.  I was making a statement, one that seems unpopular, but the point is that if you don't like it, you don't have to join, and if that's the case the Mises forum will suffer from those loses from their decision.  Makes sense?  Isn't that how a market works?

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Bert:
No, I am not argueing there are no legitmate reasons to remain anonymous, to answer your question.  I was making a statement, one that seems unpopular, but the point is that if you don't like it, you don't have to join, and if that's the case the Mises forum will suffer from those loses from their decision.  Makes sense?  Isn't that how a market works?

Sure that's how a market works.  But to claim that people only want to be anonymous because they want "the ability to be an asshole and hide in obscurity" is pretty dishonest.  And the fact that the editorial vice president of the institute authors articles on the institute's site using his real name does absolutely nothing to support the notion that there is no reason for anonymity.  You have no way of knowning how much Tucker censors himself because he knows his name will be attached to what he's writing.  You have no way of knowing he doesn't author other articles under some other name.  You have no way of knowing how many people skip over his articles simply because they see his name on it, when otherwise they would have read it and learned something.

Just yesterday I was talking to someone about how great an article was, and I explained why I thought it was such a good and effective piece.  He admitted to me that he didn't even see what I was talking about.  He admitted it was hard for him to see it because once he knew something about a person that he considered to be "whackjobbery", he found it "hard to take interest in anything else they write anymore."  In other words, because he knew who the author was, he was unable to objectively view the content and assess the information in a reasonable or neutral way.

There are plenty of people who would like their audience to be as wide as possible...they would much rather have their message absorbed by more people than have personal recognition.  Still there are others who simply have something to lose by voicing objective facts, let alone their personal opinions. (Case in point, the producer mentioned in this video who "had mouths to feed".)  And finally there are still others who have shyness and insecurities that would prevent them from participating if they could not remain anonymous.  Perhaps they are insecure about their level of knowledge and do not wish to be personally recognized as being ignorant.  Perhaps they have personal reservations about having a public presence online in any form...maybe even for personal safety reasons.

You have no idea why someone wishes to remain anonymous and to simply assume that "oh they just want to use a fake name so they can be a total asshole and not have to be held accountable" is just misanthropic and naïve.  The anonymity that the Internet allows for is likely just as much a catalyst for the vast flood of communication and information and sharing of ideas as the communication technology itself. 

The first amendment is first for a reason...because the founders understood the importance of commnucation and sharing of information and ideas.  And they knew that the only way people will do such a thing is if they do not have to fear for something they simply say or write.  And anonymity provides for the least amount of fear possible.  And it is for this reason people are the most honest in that state.

 

P.S.
Daniel James Sanchez used to author articles (and run his account here) under the name "Grayson Lilburne".

 

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bbnet replied on Sat, Jul 2 2011 8:47 AM

How would this stop the spamsters and scamsters that frolic in facebook from invading the new forum?

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I dislike facebook.  This is not good news.

Facebook is for the high schoolers who need to feel accepted by a large group of people, whom i don't care for.

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How would this stop

the spamsters and scamsters

that frolic in facebook

from invading the new forum?

Poetry.

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You can and will be discriminated against by employers and other people you might meet based on what they find about you on the internet.  I like being discriminated against (and for).  That is why I use my real name.

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Jacob:

I dislike facebook.  This is not good news.

Facebook is for the high schoolers who need to feel accepted by a large group of people, whom i don't care for.

No, that's My____________ (MySpace). Facebook is for adults who need to feel accepted by a large group of people.

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Bert replied on Sat, Jul 2 2011 3:58 PM

John James, you seem to take this seriously, so I stopped reading after the first paragraph (with the exception with what I'm going to quote), because I'm apathetic on site logins and the like.  They have little relevance on my life.  All in all, I don't care that much, or at all, really.

P.S.
Daniel James Sanchez used to author articles (and run his account here) under the name "Grayson Lilburne".

No shit.  I've been here long enough.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Bert:

John James, you seem to take this seriously, so I stopped reading after the first paragraph (with the exception with what I'm going to quote), because I'm apathetic on site logins and the like.  They have little relevance on my life.  All in all, I don't care that much, or at all, really.

P.S.
Daniel James Sanchez used to author articles (and run his account here) under the name "Grayson Lilburne".

No shit.  I've been here long enough.

Smiley thanks 068.jpg

 

And you stay classy, Berty

 

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I don't blame Israel for the solutions he is coming up with.  He's dealing with a situation that lacks leadership and vision, and he's trying what he thinks is the most efficient answer on a system he doesn't use.

I recommend that Voluntarists head over to Nielsio's forum "The Voluntary City", which he has done a really nice job on, and if you're into practical activism, Marc Stevens' forum as well.  Constitutionalists, Schifftarians and Paulites, you guys have a ton of places to do your thing.

Good luck everyone.

-LS.

 

Also, before anyone starts any conspiracy theories, I am going to have my account here deleted.  So if this post goes missing or set to guest, it was by intention.

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So because we're the majority,  by default we get screwed?

How is this different than the majority discriminating against the minority?

Why is someone who doesn't use the site trying to find solutions for it?

 

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Jacob:
Why is someone who doesn't use the site trying to find solutions for it?

That's actually a decent question.  At first one would think the answer is "because he's a nice guy (or because he's getting paid to do it) and no one else will"...but I haven't exactly seen any public requests for volunteers.

 

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liberty student:

I am going to have my account here deleted.

 
:/
 
Might I ask why? Will you still be writing anywhere online?
Check out my video, Ron Paul vs Lincoln! And share my PowerPoint with your favorite neo-con
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Anarcho-libertarian:
Might I ask why?

I am done here.  I thought it would be deleted by now, but I might wait another day and do it myself.

Anarcho-libertarian:
Will you still be writing anywhere online?

I don't really write for libertarians anymore.  I was never very good at it.  If you see "DixieFlatline" around, that's me.

I intend to write about business from an Austrian perspective at some point, but it won't be ideological. 

Anyone who wants to reach me, use the contact info at notreason.com

Last post. Auf wiedersehen.

 

(Edit: of the irony that it is broken due to the POS rich text editor.)

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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I just read neuromancer.

 

I wrote a paper for class on Dixie Flatline

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The day that libertystudent leaves this forum is a very sad one.

I'm going to cry 96 tears crying

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

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Kakugo replied on Sun, Jul 3 2011 1:36 PM

I'll play a different card. I am a LvMI member... can't just use my membership ID to log in?

Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people
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