here we go. I know I am going t get attacked relentlessly for even asking the damn question but I want to know. I am an Ancap so I am going to come right out at say this is a subject I am ignorant on and I am just looking for the libertarian side of the coin. Here we go. I am not challenging you all just seeking info.
Ok, I have always heard that the internet is the invention of the US military. It is arguably the most important intervention since, say, the printing press or the refridgerator. Given these "facts", if the government is only capable of waste and death, how was it able to come up with such an amazing invention as the internet before the markets were able to. Again, maybe they weren't first, I don't know. Just wanted input from others wh may know a little more on the subject than I do.
thanks
This is a common one.
1) The importance of the Internet is exaggerated - it is really computation that is the modern miracle, not electrical networking which had been around at least since the time of Samuel B. Morse. What makes the Internet different from telephones is what's hooked up at the ends (computers), not what's in between them.
2) The topology of the internet is fairly obvious. You can either have a single hub into which all traffic is sent and re-sent (obviously inefficient over any sort of large geography) or you can have some kind of peer-to-peer relay system.
3) Data packets also were not invented by ARPANet, the building blocks of networking had been in use for a long time.
4) The government can claim to be the "first" to do a lot of things because they overinvest in all kinds of research, the vast majority of which goes to complete waste. This is not an argument in favor of government funded R&D.
5) What really makes the Internet valuable is the content of the Web. The military has nothing to do with this content and did not invent or foresee the Web.
So, basically, ARPANet was the first WAN. All the ingredients for it (computation, networking, packet communication) were already present. It was first because the military has a lot of money and wastes it on all sorts of R&D projects, most of which come to nothing. The value of the Internet lies in the content (the Web), which the military did not invent or even foresee. The only question left is... who cares? Why are we talking about this?
Clayton -
Yeah this argument is not uncommon. Here's a few resources:
The myth that government created the internet
Government Did Invent the Internet, But the Market Made It Glorious
Did government invent the Internet?
So, who really did invent the Internet?
The Myth of Under-provision of Science by the Free Market
The Inventor of the Digital Age
Threads:
But the government invented the Internet...
Government and Innovation
How did the Internet start?
I'll add more as I think of them. This whole premise is the nonsense we see in stories like the one that begins this thread.
The reason I care is because I have heard this used as an argument from statists that the internet was created by the government which "proves" the government is capable of creating amazing things. I figured it was going to be some over-investment into R&D that finally resulted in the internet and that entrepreneurs were mostly responsible for it. Why do you care why I care? Aren't there many reasons why people post on these forums? Thanks for the response.
The reason I care is because I have heard this used as an argument from statists that the internet was created by the government which "proves" the government is capable of creating amazing things.
I understand that - I was speaking rhetorically to your "friend" who was asking the question to begin with.
Governments also sent people to Moon first before the market (and I doubt market would have wasted money for such trips at least up until 2100. So it's not who did it first what's important, but who used his legitimately earned money to do something that people valued to pay for voluntarily. Internet would be invented anyway in this age or a later age. Just like people would go to space anyway in this age or after 2100.. who cares. Not me. I care about not beinmg robbed only by thugs.
(english is not my native language, sorry for grammar.)
+1 MaikU!
MaikU:Governments also send people to Moon first before the market (and I doubt market would have wasted money for such trips at least up until 2100. So it's not who did it first what's important, but who used his legitimately earned money to do something that people valued to pay for voluntatrily. Internet would be invented anyway in this age or a later age. Just like people would go to space anyway in this age or after 2100.. who cares. Not me. I care about not beinmg robbed only by thugs.
Yeah, I went into this in the selected answer here.
Moonshot... the ultimate in Keynesian pyramid-building. Remember, kids:
caulds989:The reason I care is because I have heard this used as an argument from statists that the internet was created by the government which "proves" the government is capable of creating amazing things. I figured it was going to be some over-investment into R&D that finally resulted in the internet and that entrepreneurs were mostly responsible for it. Why do you care why I care? Aren't there many reasons why people post on these forums? Thanks for the response.
Of course the government is capable of creting amazing things. Just look at the Stalinist art in Moscows subways: it is very pretty. Free market economists aren't saying that the government isn't capable of creating amazing things at all, we are saying that it does so at too high a cost. The market could have done more with fewer resources.
If the government spends big percentages of GDP year after year on research, it'll eventually come up with something. And then people go "ha! government created something useful, so government R&D must be beneficial". Problem is, we don't know what the free market would have done with those resources, probably more.
Btw. government also developed nukes and machine guns. So even if it were completely without opportunity cost, are we really better off with government research?
This one is a good view on the subject.
John James: MaikU:Governments also send people to Moon first before the market (and I doubt market would have wasted money for such trips at least up until 2100. So it's not who did it first what's important, but who used his legitimately earned money to do something that people valued to pay for voluntatrily. Internet would be invented anyway in this age or a later age. Just like people would go to space anyway in this age or after 2100.. who cares. Not me. I care about not beinmg robbed only by thugs. Yeah, I went into this in the selected answer here.
I got back from work. As usual opened mises threads I liked in multiple tabs. Left to eat. Went back. Wrote my answers to important threads. Clicked submit. Shit tons of way better answers before mine. :) Happens everytime.
MaikU:I got back from work. As usual opened mises threads I liked in multiple tabs. Left to eat. Went back. Wrote my answers to important threads. Clicked submit. Shit tons of way better answers before mine. :) Happens everytime.
...in your defense though, my post was made 6 months ago.