I'm speechless.
I was waiting for this to be posted on here or LRC; I saw it on YouTube last week. Moore, like the typical dolt, can't tell the difference between fascism and capitalism. He also complains about bonuses to zombies like AIG, yet can't seem to put two and two together and realize that the State, and not capitalism, is what made that possible. That trailer made me sick and I would not doubt if there is a viewing of the movie on my campus.
One silver lining is that he seems to be against bailouts.
A problem with idiots like Michael Moore is that when they say capitalism, they mean mercantilism, but then they make the non sequitur of arguing in favor of socialism.
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
Caley McKibbin: One silver lining is that he seems to be against bailouts.
Well of course he has no idea what he's talking about, but the other silver lining is that this will help to discredit capitalism-bashing to everyone with a fully functional brain. The people who think his propaganda is true are beyond hope anyway.
I do find it hilarious how this is about "Capitalism" yet the trailer seems to focus mostly on government inverventionism and bailouts. That's one seriously confused individual-- where is John Stossel when we need him?
Where is Michael Moore attacking the biggest proponent of Capitalism in Congress? Ron Paul?OHHHHH WAIT, that would destroy the premise of the film.
Carry on...
Michael Moore is just one of the many red capes flown in front of the people to distract them from the real problems. I wouldn't call him a "useful idiot" because he knows perfectly well what he's doing and has made a nice little fortune out of it. He produces the kind of sanitized, apparatus-backed and harmless dissent European elegant leftists love so much because it makes them feel so superior to "Capitalist America", the hated enemy that ruined the world (and that gave them their i-Phones, their Apple laptops, their godawful Crocs etc).
Conzaaaaaa I've been trying to contact you to find out where you obtained your avatar picture (would come in useful making fun of people on other forums), but I keep getting ignored! Rats!
Hopefully this is a sign of the left getting much more bold and honest about their positions, instead of their usually very subtle effective fabian campaigns and propaganda they have been using. They are in absolute power now, they control the propaganda, they are the hip group, they have the hip charasmatic leader, and hopefully they are bold (and stupid) enough to be more open and honest in dialouge and policy. Micheal Moore, a hipster doofus poster boy for lefties, may be a "useful idiot" indeed; if he is part of some new trend of exposing the left for what it really is by their own insane words and actions. Hopefully the movie critics/ "daily show" types will praise this documentary to high heaven exposing themselves even more.
I'm also REALLY REALLY hoping for some heavy handed emotional pleas and obvious "sad sack" stories, and then him being praised as "cutting edge", "witty", and "intellectual" like every other one of his damned documentaries.
Ansury: Conzaaaaaa I've been trying to contact you to find out where you obtained your avatar picture (would come in useful making fun of people on other forums), but I keep getting ignored! Rats!
http://franklyspeakingradio.com/go_back_to_sleep.jpg
I don't understand the attitude toward Moore here. This is a man who hates out government. Did anyone see Fahrenheit 9/11? He stood outside Capitol Hill and tried to sign up the children of congressmen into the service!
He watched his hometown gutted and tried to get answers on how it happened. What was he supposed to do, lie down and take it?
At least laugh with this movie. It may be the catalyst to bring about change.
Look, Hank Paulson wrote a note on a napkin asking for 2 times the military budget for the banks because (boo hoo) the banks made some errors and strangely thought asset prices only rise and never fall. It's not like they hire economists or anything, so Paulson scored $700 large for the poor fellas, and BB kicked in $2 super-sized for starters. The banks took our money so they could lend it back to us... except the last part.
Something like that gets people mad, and it should be encouraged. Wall street is the most crime-infested cesspool on earth. It has purchased a more-than-willing government, and wrote is own legislation that allows the banking industry to operate completely opaque and enter into contracts that were not signed by the 3rd party, even though the 3rd party bore all the risks. You were the 3rd party.
Golden Sacks changed accounting methods 11 times in 2008. According to my calculations, that's almost every month.
Ratings agencies gave AAA ratings on huge securitized pools of debt without ever seeing a single loan breakdown. How do you go from no info to AAA? Was it a mistake? A typo? There has to be a way to get them to describe very specifically the process in which AAA was listed next to all that garbage. After it hit the fan, Fitch finally got around to doing a sample of loans on one issue. They reported "a substantial amount of fraud." Really!
Madoff was investigated 5 times. Since that case broke, the SEC has rehired some of the old lawyers who left there and went into glitzy private offices. Why would these lawyers give up their 7-figure incomes to go back to work at the SEC? Only a cynic would think it could be to run interference in the upcoming investigations. We already know what the report is going to say. Bla, bla, bla. They have a Word template they use called, "Crime Tsk Tsk..dot"
The number of crimes the banks have committed, crimes they are allowed to pay fines for, are so numerous, that any other company would be declared a habitual criminal offender against society, and shot dead. Citi has almost 10,000 subsidiaries, and 2000 of them are offshore. What? 1000 wasn't enough? Citi has $45 billion of your money, and it was stolen. If you have a Citi ATM in your neighborhood, you live in a high-crime area.
I'm going to celebrate this movie. I'm a proud capitalist, and I play by the rules. I do this not because I'm particularly good, but because even the stupid part of me knows that everything suffers, and the system breaks when you don't play by the rules. When you save a few dollars and put stuff in your dog food that makes little Cindy find her cuddly little puppy with foam coming out one end, and blood out the other, it's time for your liberty to be denied. It was there, and now it has to be gone.
The banks have done for capitalism what Bush did for Democracy. Democracy is something parents scare their kids with now. "You mind me! Don't you make me call America! They will bomb your little brown ass right into next week!"
Like Moore you miss the point , of course Henk Paulson is a schmutz, but that is not capitalism, Paulson gets all his money from the taxpayer. On the free market he would have to earn it. So to say that government's were corrupt is correct but to blame capitalism is a bait and switch technique. it is dishonest.
No. You miss the point.
There have been many a wicked things done to turn a profit that didn't need the help of any institution. Corporations go to great lengths to deny responsability for a mountain of dead bodies, or a patch of scorched earth. We are in an age where capitalism has institutionalized crime in the quest for growth. Call it what you want, but the roots in the quest for short-term gains using market mechanics.
Keith Ackermann: No. You miss the point. There have been many a wicked things done to turn a profit that didn't need the help of any institution. Corporations go to great lengths to deny responsability for a mountain of dead bodies, or a patch of scorched earth. We are in an age where capitalism has institutionalized crime in the quest for growth. Call it what you want, but the roots in the quest for short-term gains using market mechanics.
Speaking of scorched earth, have heard about the "wildfires" in southern California? Yeah, those fires are on government-owned land and now the taxpayers have to pay to put them out.
Moore hates the government only because it is not as big as he would like.
Keith Ackermann: No. You miss the point. There have been many a wicked things done to turn a profit that didn't need the help of any institution.
There have been many a wicked things done to turn a profit that didn't need the help of any institution.
Would you rather have those things done for a loss? At least they were efficient and didn't waste scarce resources.
Daniel: A problem with idiots like Michael Moore is that when they say capitalism, they mean mercantilism, but then they make the non sequitur of arguing in favor of socialism.
That's not new. Marx was saying the same thing.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
Stranger: Daniel: A problem with idiots like Michael Moore is that when they say capitalism, they mean mercantilism, but then they make the non sequitur of arguing in favor of socialism. That's not new. Marx was saying the same thing.
And that is where he made a huge mistake.
Daniel: Stranger: Daniel: A problem with idiots like Michael Moore is that when they say capitalism, they mean mercantilism, but then they make the non sequitur of arguing in favor of socialism. That's not new. Marx was saying the same thing. And that is where he made a huge mistake.
Did he? He became a famous writer and sold millions of books. We are still arguing about it today.
Clearly the solution to bribery, cronyism, favouritism and incompetence in politics is the expansion of the political sphere.
Irish Liberty Forum
Stranger: Daniel: Stranger: Daniel: A problem with idiots like Michael Moore is that when they say capitalism, they mean mercantilism, but then they make the non sequitur of arguing in favor of socialism. That's not new. Marx was saying the same thing. And that is where he made a huge mistake. Did he? He became a famous writer and sold millions of books. We are still arguing about it today.
So what? It doesn't mean he wasn't wrong.
1) Michael Moore is not anti-government, he is anti-conservative/republican/libertarian/free market. If this were Animal Farm and the Dems were Napoleon he (along with other media) would be the character Squealer.
2) Looking at influencial people in the ruling party lines for help/ allies is usually a bad idea. Consult chapter III of The Prince for some reasons why.
Keith Ackermann:I don't understand the attitude toward Moore here.
Michael Moore is an Economically Illiterate Socialist and you don't understand the negative attitude towards a socialist at a free market website? Really? I'm speechless.
You seem massively confused about Capitalism, have you read anything on this website? You also seem to have a control and jealousy problem. Who cares where people keep their money, it is theirs to do with what they please. Sure everyone here is against the bailouts but if you are looking for "fairness" which is a subjective idealistic fantasy you are at the wrong site.
Unbelievable.
"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises
Keith Ackermann: I don't understand the attitude toward Moore here. This is a man who hates out government. Did anyone see Fahrenheit 9/11? He stood outside Capitol Hill and tried to sign up the children of congressmen into the service!
A poor argument for liberty is worse than none at all. Any reasonable person would be turned off by his naked populism and appeals to emotion, because it is obviously all he has. I wouldn't be surprised if people turned away from the liberty movement in order to distance themselves from anything tenuously associated with that clown.
“Elections are Futures Markets in Stolen Property.” - H. L. Mencken
Conza88: http://franklyspeakingradio.com/go_back_to_sleep.jpg
Thanks!
Stranger:Did he? He became a famous writer and sold millions of books. We are still arguing about it today.
Sir Alexander Gray in The Socialist Tradition: But beyond this, there are those who believe in Marx without having read him-perhaps who believe in Marx just because they have no read him. It is probably a safe surmise that to-day the third volume of Capital is even less read than that single chapter which has conferred immorality on the prophet Obadiah, and when read, is read with as little comprehension. Just as, according to some and to judge from their practice, a good Christian need not read his Bible, so a good Marxian does not need to read his Marx: He knows it is there. Thus, for the great body of the faithful, Marx has become the inspired author of a body of Sorelian myths, which sum up, and fit in with, their general view of life, which clarify and illumine their daily strivings, which rationalize and crystallize their instincts...in a world where we all feel so much less fortunate than we think we ought to be, it is comforting to be told that we are right, and to know who is responsible for our unhappiness. This is what Marx did, and here lies the secret of his influence
But beyond this, there are those who believe in Marx without having read him-perhaps who believe in Marx just because they have no read him. It is probably a safe surmise that to-day the third volume of Capital is even less read than that single chapter which has conferred immorality on the prophet Obadiah, and when read, is read with as little comprehension. Just as, according to some and to judge from their practice, a good Christian need not read his Bible, so a good Marxian does not need to read his Marx: He knows it is there. Thus, for the great body of the faithful, Marx has become the inspired author of a body of Sorelian myths, which sum up, and fit in with, their general view of life, which clarify and illumine their daily strivings, which rationalize and crystallize their instincts...in a world where we all feel so much less fortunate than we think we ought to be, it is comforting to be told that we are right, and to know who is responsible for our unhappiness. This is what Marx did, and here lies the secret of his influence
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
I'm going to appreciate this piece of film, as it will show government interventionism as the problem, and a market free of government intervention as the only logical solution.
I applaud you, Mr. Moore!
Michael Moore is an unbelievable clown
"fairness is a subjective, idealist fantasy..."
I just tried your theory, and you are absolutely correct. I brought home one large piece of cake, and one tiny sliver of cake and gave a piece to each of my boys. They both got cake, which I thought was fair.
I would have responded earlier, but my youngest tasered me again, and it takes a while before I can type. I'm just kidding. I don't even have kids, but if I did, I wouldn't know how to sell the concept that fairness is not real. It would take the fight out of them before they even had a chance. Do you have kids?
I'm not sure what you mean about me caring where people put their money. It's never really crossed my mind... or are you talking about the Citi's offshore subsidiaries? Is that what what they are doing with those subsidiaries now? Tax haven accounts? They used to use them for money laundering, so I guess it's my mistake. I'm impressed that a habitual criminal enterprise welded to the state can turn around and be so open and honest.
Oh man, I'm going to resist writing paragraphs and totally angsting out here. So, put shortly, I stop to wonder, what wouldn't Moore consider capitalism? Seriously, even the average American might start scratching their head when he mentions clash-for-clunkers. Then again, the stupendous capacity for doublethink always does surprise.
Giant_Joe:I'm going to appreciate this piece of film, as it will show government interventionism as the problem, and a market free of government intervention as the only logical solution. I applaud you, Mr. Moore!
Government Explained 2: The Special Piece of Paper
Law without Government
Keith Ackermann:I'm impressed that a habitual criminal enterprise welded to the state can turn around and be so open and honest.
I'm impressed that a habitual criminal enterprise welded to the state can turn around and be so open and honest.
I doubt that any adult is going to wake up one day an have an intellectual epiphany on their ideal system because of some Moore movie.
"The banks have done for capitalism what Bush did for Democracy. Democracy is something parents scare their kids with now. "You mind me! Don't you make me call America! They will bomb your little brown ass right into next week!""
That was put quite well. The last two lines wrapped it all up pretty well. I think the point we should be making to public, or at least an emphasis, is that we oppose when private companies get in bed with the government, as well as being against non productive regulations, and the government in general.
Freedom has always been the only route to progress.
Keith Ackermann:I wouldn't know how to sell the concept that fairness is not real. It would take the fight out of them before they even had a chance. Do you have kids?
I never said it was not real, I said it was subjective. So is "fairness" subjective or not? Who decides what is "fair"
Keith Ackermann:I'm not sure what you mean about me caring where people put their money. It's never really crossed my mind... or are you talking about the Citi's offshore subsidiaries? Is that what what they are doing with those subsidiaries now? Tax haven accounts?
I have praise for anyone who can find ways to keep their money from being stolen from them by the IRS.
I was just told I have to make use of this dirty thing called money to watch his movie, sounds like exploitation to me. His movies should be free because he is just expressing his talents that were given to him, he did nothing to earn them. we should all have free access to his movies.
lol
MatthewWilliam: Clearly the solution to bribery, cronyism, favouritism and incompetence in politics is the expansion of the political sphere.
Exactly, every person on the left seems to like this line of reasoning.
"These guys, for all that stuff they've been telling us all these years about, 'Go capitalism! Free market! Free enterprise!' They don't believe in any of that. They don't believe in free enterprise or free market. They want socialism for themselves. They want a handout and a net for themselves. To hell with everybody else, but give it to them. And I think, really, what we're seeing now -- with them, with the banks -- we're seeing the end of capitalism. The end of capitalism as we know it and I say good riddance. It hasn't helped the people or the planet." -- Michael Moore on Larry King Live, Wednesday, November 19th, 2008
So first he realizes that we don't have capitalism, we have socialism for the rich. Then he says lets end capitalism??
Did anyone see Jay Leno's interview with Michael last night? I agreed with nearly everything he said aside from the fact he was attacking the wrong enemy and that he said, "Capitalism is basically defined by legalized greed."
The majority of the interview however dealt with how cooperations should give every penny they received from the government to the American people despite the financial situation it would put them in. This is a message I can rally behind.