If religions are opposed to usury, wouldn't that mean they have to be opposed to profits?
Most religions charge a fee on a loan instad of interest but aren't they the same thing?
It's just two different words for the same thing.
yes,yes
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
Usury is simple method of enslaving people in despair... It has nothing to do with profit or interest.Also - many people do not understand clearly the compound percent - the fee is understandable for anyone.
MariusAureus: Usury is simple method of enslaving people in despair... It has nothing to do with profit or interest.
Usury is simple method of enslaving people in despair... It has nothing to do with profit or interest.
So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
A point on usury in the Bible- it is highly debated what it actually means and I wouldn't side with the simple interest definition; it is more likely to be punitive interest rates. If you look at the the context where it is described pejoratively it is the context of exploiting the poor. ie you shouldn't do it. Also other usages are in regards family of tribes of the nation of Israel and as such you cannot seperate usury from the purpose of the Mosaic law- to point to Christ as the one who would crush the serpents head prophesised in Genesis 3 and an attempt to bring the kingdom of God on earth through Israel. the latter point explains aspects of the Mosiac law which may not seem Rothbardian since the aim was keeping the land in israel's and the specific tribes hands.
Now in the NT the locus of the kingdom of God is not a piece of land inhabited by the Israelites but in Church which may explain the complete absence of any teaching on usury in the NT. I would go as far to say that the NT endorses interest in the parable of the talents where one man is commended for putting money in a bank, essentially anyway, which earns interest and is called a good steward.
In conclusion it's not as clear as you may think at first.
The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.
Yours sincerely,
Physiocrat
No but 5% per day, maybe.
Criminals, there ought to be a law.
Criminals there ought to be a whole lot more. Bon Scott.
Daniel: So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement?
Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)
MariusAureus: Daniel: So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement? Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)
What is it exactly?
MariusAuerus: Daniel: So charging a 5% interest rate is enslavement? Usury is usually more than healthy i.e. market rate - I think you know that... ;-)
DD5: Please enlighten us. How high does it need to be? What is the cutoff point between valid interest and usury?
I do not say that there is any "cutoff point", so I am far from opposing this practice in legal sense, or sending anyone to hell.I do say that usury is a matter of human relations under particular circumstances - usually extremely hard for *only one* of the sides.
In my view (as above) usurers are nothing but brutish thugs robbering the weakest...
I surely do not befriend them - that's all...
Enlightened?
As for me - EOT.
Part of Christianity's problem with usury stems from Aristotelean scholasticism (especially that of St. Thomas). Aristotle deemed interest "unnatural" because money is "barren" (it doesn't produce anything).
Lilburne: Part of Christianity's problem with usury stems from Aristotelean scholasticism (especially that of St. Thomas). Aristotle deemed interest "unnatural" because money is "barren" (it doesn't produce anything).
MariusAureus: I do not say that there is any "cutoff point", so I am far from opposing this practice in legal sense, or sending anyone to hell.I do say that usury is a matter of human relations under particular circumstances - usually extremely hard for *only one* of the sides. In my view (as above) usurers are nothing but brutish thugs robbering the weakest...
So why isn't 5% considered usury?
There is no such thing as usury.