What do you say to people when they think only the federal reserve is involved in counterfeiting our money supply?
How do I get them to realize that the government is involved in this process?
DD5: SilentXtarian: About that, it's shocking to me how many people don't know it. They think it's absolutely fine that such an agency that wields immense power has a right to be independent from scrutiny, or, anything, and that it can do whatever it wants. And they wonder why we're so outraged at the fed. To me, the issue you raise is not so important, although it is effective for anti-fed propaganda. The main facts about the Fed are not secret: It creates money, it provides liquidity to banks, it buys government debt, it regulates and coordinates the entire banking system. It attempts to centrally plan the most importan price in the market - Interest! What more do possibly want? So who cares if the Fed uses its power to favor its friends? What other friends do you have in mind? Obamas friends? Perhaps's your friends? It's bound to be somebody's friends anyway. So who cares??? There is no other more rational mehtod by which the Fed can inject money into the system anyway.
SilentXtarian: About that, it's shocking to me how many people don't know it. They think it's absolutely fine that such an agency that wields immense power has a right to be independent from scrutiny, or, anything, and that it can do whatever it wants. And they wonder why we're so outraged at the fed.
About that, it's shocking to me how many people don't know it. They think it's absolutely fine that such an agency that wields immense power has a right to be independent from scrutiny, or, anything, and that it can do whatever it wants. And they wonder why we're so outraged at the fed.
To me, the issue you raise is not so important, although it is effective for anti-fed propaganda. The main facts about the Fed are not secret: It creates money, it provides liquidity to banks, it buys government debt, it regulates and coordinates the entire banking system. It attempts to centrally plan the most importan price in the market - Interest! What more do possibly want?
So who cares if the Fed uses its power to favor its friends? What other friends do you have in mind? Obamas friends? Perhaps's your friends? It's bound to be somebody's friends anyway. So who cares??? There is no other more rational mehtod by which the Fed can inject money into the system anyway.
Point is, the constitution only allows for silver and gold coin to be used as legal tender....
people say, well the federal reserve is not a gov. entity, so they can do this...
well, the federal reserve note is forced on us....so its not exactly private....
our gov. forces us to use federal reserve notes....
a private institution could never force their currency on us....
edison: though i dont have a complete picture of historical central bank fraud, as interesitng as the counterfitting claim is what economic hardship was caused by the generating of notes in excess of specie. did it (the fraud, if it took place) cause price fluctuations that many were unable to cope with effectivly..creating hardships, iow??
though i dont have a complete picture of historical central bank fraud, as interesitng as the counterfitting claim is what economic hardship was caused by the generating of notes in excess of specie.
did it (the fraud, if it took place) cause price fluctuations that many were unable to cope with effectivly..creating hardships, iow??
yes....prices have risen dramatically....
if you had savings for instance....you had real wealth stolen from you.
You have no right to value.
scineram: You have no right to value.
You have right to your wealth.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
No one took away his dollars.
well, there are two kinds of counterfeiting. and one is considered a crime because it is implicit theft. the other is considered a crime because it undermines the governments artificial monetary system.(not really a crime though that one)
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
Byzantine:It's a form of theft whether the government or a private individual does it.
no, 'it depends'. counterfeiting commodity money is obviously implicit theft. counterfeiting government fiat money is not.
my fiat currency is no better or worse than their fiat money. there is nothing backing any of it, it is a claim redeemable in nothing, so there is no implicit theft. i am not passing off any 'gold in a vault somewhere' off as 'my gold in vault'. I pass off a claim to nothing recognisable by peculiar patterns as a claim to nothing recognisable by peculiar patterns.
Fiat money is never redeemed. It is only exchanged. The new notes are as genuine as all the others so it is not counterfeiting.
Byzantine: That is a distinction without a difference. If increasing the fiat money in circulation is not theft when its done by a criminal mob, then what the Fed does is not theft either. But in fact both the private and the public counterfeiter are committing theft by getting real goods and services in exchange for dollars that were just printed up, not obtained in mutual exchange.
That is a distinction without a difference. If increasing the fiat money in circulation is not theft when its done by a criminal mob, then what the Fed does is not theft either. But in fact both the private and the public counterfeiter are committing theft by getting real goods and services in exchange for dollars that were just printed up, not obtained in mutual exchange.
If you say something like this you will undermine the argument against copyrights.
Fiat means it is irredeemable.