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Local Public Libraries

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ViennaSausage Posted: Mon, Mar 17 2008 1:38 PM
How do ya'll feel about local public libraries? Would a private library be able to compete with a public one? Can a private library still be "free" to end users?

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champthom replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 2:03 PM

ViennaSausage:
How do ya'll feel about local public libraries? Would a private library be able to compete with a public one? Can a private library still be "free" to end users?
 

 

I definitely think private libraries could compete with public ones, just like they do now. Many university libraries offer public borrowing privileges where for some fee like $10 a year, you have access to the library (though there's usually limitations on interlibrary loans and that sort of thing) and from my experience, the local community college has a far superior selection in terms of books and periodicals than the better public libraries.

 

I myself spent $15 for borrowing privileges at Hamilton, $10 at Utica College, and $10 at SUNYIT (all three come in handy when I'm home from school and I want to get access to some good economic texts). I could just do an interlibrary loan, but I just find it more efficient to go through these university libraries and I usually get to keep the book for about the same time, if not longer. 

 

These university libraries obviously are concerned with the needs of their students and faculty, so a general private library would have far more liberal borrowing privileges. If I recall correctly, the Carnegie libraries were private institutions, so access could still be free.  

"What meanest thou by seizing the whole earth; because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, whilst thou who dost the same with a great fleet art styled emperor?"- the Pirate's response to Alexander the Great on his charges of terrorism, from St. Augustine's "City of God"
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Bogart replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 2:08 PM

That depends on what the word "public" means.  If it means that some or all of their funds are stolen from tax payers in any form or at any level then I am against them no matter what good they say they do or what good they are attempting to accomplish.  If they get their funds from private sources then I am completely for them and may even donate money to them myself depending on my experience using them.  Please note that stolen funds also includes money or property confiscated using emminent domain.

As we have seen in education, health care, museums, etc, it is difficult but NOT IMPOSSIBLE for private organizations to run these things.  These private organizations typically have a large stable of affluent donors as does the Cincinnati Art Museum that I support.

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Stranger replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 2:50 PM

 Public libraries can't even compete with Barnes & Noble. They're paternalistic tax-pits and must be closed down.

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Mark B. replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 3:36 PM

About a year and a half ago, I went to the public library to read Rothbard's "Conceived in Liberty".  My county library system had volumes 1 and 2.  I had to go to the adjoining county for volumes 3 and 4.  And that county ONLY had 3 and 4. :)  I wonder if anybody in the library system comprehended the absurdity of that situation.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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Spideynw replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 7:53 PM

Stranger:

 Public libraries can't even compete with Barnes & Noble. They're paternalistic tax-pits and must be closed down.

I could not have said it better.

At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.

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MacFall replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 9:16 PM

Spideynw:

Stranger:

 Public libraries can't even compete with Barnes & Noble. They're paternalistic tax-pits and must be closed down.

I could not have said it better.

 

Huzzah. 

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banned replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 11:02 PM

Private libraries wouldn't be able to be completely free (nor are they now, you just pay a regular fee in april rather than when/if you need them), but they could potentially be very low cost. They aren't paying for their product and only offer a low maintainence service. 

 Also, virtual libraries seem to be the next phase in literary distribution, so I dont see a nessesity in creating *new* private libraries. Certainly a private network or site that offers content at the touch of a button for low price (or no price with ad sales), requiring no physical tracker or manual labor would be much more efficient, I certainly havn't used a library for any of the books available by the Mises Institute.

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Spideynw replied on Mon, Mar 17 2008 11:04 PM

And why should taxpayers be forced to pay for something that only a few people use anyways?  I know the response is "to provide the service for the poor".  But, if we quit wasting taxpayer money on worthless libraries, there would be more money for the rich to provide jobs to the poor so they can afford to pay for a library card at a private library, a computer, or even food.

At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.

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BWF89 replied on Tue, Mar 18 2008 3:19 PM

banned:
Also, virtual libraries seem to be the next phase in literary distribution,

Most people aren't going to want to read an entire 500 page book on their computer monitor though. This is why ebooks aren't much of a threat to the established dead tree book industry. Unlike piracy in the music, movie, and video game industries where most younger people just download the stuff from a p2p service and it's as good as as if they bought a hard copy from the store.

On a second thought the rampant piracy in the music, movie, and video game industries could actually be a good thing for the intellectual stimulation of the populace. If the companies are making less money from music, movies, or video games they would 1) Stop pumping out as many crappy products and focus on putting out a quality product (ie better plot lines and characters) instead of spending millions of special effects and 2) People might start reading more books instead of staring mindlessly into the TV to catch the latest episode of whatever crappy reality TV show is on.

But on the other hand if the companies are making less money off of crappy products they might not have as much capital to invest in newer, riskier, and possibly more innovative products. If that's true it's just completely disproved my previous paragraph.

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MacFall replied on Tue, Mar 18 2008 5:23 PM

BWF89:

banned:
Also, virtual libraries seem to be the next phase in literary distribution,

Most people aren't going to want to read an entire 500 page book on their computer monitor though.

 

Exactly. It's no paradox that the LVMI providing Mises' work, for example, for free online has resulted in his works being sold in print at record rates. I dare anyone to try absorbing Human Action through luminous pixels. I couldn't do it. I usually print off something that I want to read that's longer than a few paragraphs.

On net, e-books only tend to generate interest in the printed work.

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MacFall:

BWF89:

banned:
Also, virtual libraries seem to be the next phase in literary distribution,

Most people aren't going to want to read an entire 500 page book on their computer monitor though.

 

Exactly. It's no paradox that the LVMI providing Mises' work, for example, for free online has resulted in his works being sold in print at record rates. I dare anyone to try absorbing Human Action through luminous pixels. I couldn't do it. I usually print off something that I want to read that's longer than a few paragraphs.

On net, e-books only tend to generate interest in the printed work.

I'm reading 'capitalism' on pdf on the internet. Human Action is indeed next. ;)

The state is not the enemy. The idea of the state is. 

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jtucker replied on Tue, Mar 18 2008 5:39 PM

Yes, but try to tell that to the publishing establishment. These people are remarkably backward.  

Publisher, Laissez-Faire Books

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banned replied on Tue, Mar 18 2008 6:15 PM

BWF89:

Most people aren't going to want to read an entire 500 page book on their computer monitor though. This is why ebooks aren't much of a threat to the established dead tree book industry. Unlike piracy in the music, movie, and video game industries where most younger people just download the stuff from a p2p service and it's as good as as if they bought a hard copy from the store.

 

However, Usually its not as good as the original copy. Most videos that are downloaded are DVD rips, with encoding around that of a VHS recording. DVD quality is much higher, however, downloading an image can take days. Most music for download is in .mp3 format, which is lossy and notably flat unless you get higher bitrate (upwards of 320). CD quality is much greater. Comparing the downloads on forms of entertainment and visual stimulation that tend to be more popular to e-books doesn't qualify the assessment that it isn't a competative force in the market. You're involving personal preference to market validity. The harry potter crowed was in uproar when the 7th book was released on the internet. 

There ARE online .pdf libraries that do quite well, simply because e-books are easier to site/search for information. Certainly you cant beat the atmosphere, nestalgia, or ease on eyes of a book to that of text through a moniter, but there are many other aspects which make e-books more economic and user-friendly.

 

 

On a second thought the rampant piracy in the music, movie, and video game industries could actually be a good thing for the intellectual stimulation of the populace. If the companies are making less money from music, movies, or video games they would 1) Stop pumping out as many crappy products and focus on putting out a quality product (ie better plot lines and characters) instead of spending millions of special effects and 2) People might start reading more books instead of staring mindlessly into the TV to catch the latest episode of whatever crappy reality TV show is on.

 I dont see how having BETTER movies would assuage losses due to piracy.

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MacFall replied on Tue, Mar 18 2008 6:22 PM

AdrianHealey:
I'm reading 'capitalism' on pdf on the internet. Human Action is indeed next. ;)
 

Cheapskate, buy the book. =p

Actually I got a used copy of Human Action (3rd ed., hardcover) pretty cheap on eBay, so I shouldn't call anyone a cheapskate. But anything else I buy will probably be from the Mises store now that I'm able to afford new books.

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I have been thinking about this a lot lately, because I have a toddler so we go to the library a lot.  I keep thinking that there is a huge market for a private library that caters to kids and parents, who are one of the biggest chunks of library patrons.  I don't think private libraries would have to be free to be effective, but I think that the existence of the "free" public libraries makes it harder for a members-only organization to be successful.  The trick would be to offer services that differentiate it from the other libraries.  Free ILL, food court, etc.  Essentially a Harvard Club for everone else. 

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. ... Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

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