On Moving to the United States

Since I'm going to graduate soon I've been devoting a lot of time into job prospects. And, as with many jobs, its who you know. I happen to know several people who could very possibly secure me some very decent engineering jobs, however several of them are in the United States. I'd be very grateful to anyone who could give me some reasons on why I should or shouldn't move to the U.S., particularly the Maryland/Virginia region?

I love the United States. I would never want to live anywhere else. Partially because this is my home, but mostly because I really do believe it is the best country in the world, especially for business. Engineering is a job we definitely need right now considering the economy. I can't personally offer any reasons regarding why you shouldn't move here considering I don't know where you're coming from or what things you like, but I can almost guarantee you will love it here.

Well, where do you live now? Compare and contrast is easiest way.

But we have walmart and amazon.com... donno if you have those where you're from.

Québec

We have Wal-Mart and amazon.ca

hmm... your girls are probably hotter than our girls then. I think America is good if you are going to earn 60+usd/year. For poor people, its kind of the pits... you just live paycheck 2 paycheck and can't really protect yourself. No job security. If you can become upper-middle class, its like you're a different citizen. Nice stuff costs maybe 30% more than crap stuff costs, so just having a little more income can make your life so much better.

What kind of engineer btw? What companies?

"I love the United States. I would never want to live anywhere else. Partially because this is my home, but mostly because I really do believe it is the best country in the world, especially for business. Engineering is a job we definitely need right now considering the economy."

Do we really have a nationalist libertarian?

Is a $40,000 to $50,000 a year job paycheck-to-paycheck in the U.S.?

What kind of engineer btw?

Controls

hmm... your girls are probably hotter than our girls then

Crap, I'm rethinking this already.

Angurse:

Is a $40,000 to $50,000 a year job paycheck-to-paycheck in the U.S.

Depends on the city in which you will live.

Depends on the city in which you will live.

Okay,

Maryland: Baltimore, Annapolis,

Virginia: Hampton/Norfolk/Virginia Beach, Richmond

Piece of advise, don't move to Baltimore. Highest crime rates in the country, filthy city... Even though the aquarium is nice there... And I like the inner harbor cept the water is f***ing black....

Vladimir Rezun:--"Don't fool yourself. Our girls are just as pretty. Don't defect if this is your only reason.'

Its the same everywhere.

"[American] Football. Yay! Obama. Bidden. Yay! ... Yay! Sniff, sniff. I'm so happy they won... Tear, Tear." So tells me a very pretty woman going into the US army as officer.

"Right!" I say...

 

Edit: Virginia beach is a really nice place to be during the summer! Go there often.

 

The US is still probably one of the better countries to live in, I am fairly certain it would be preferable to Canada from an economic point of view.  40-50K a year is not living from paycheck to paycheck in any city, even NYC, in Virginia it should be more than enough; that is, if you are somewhat careful with your money and don't have a large family to support.

Maryland and Virginia probably would be more temperate than Quebec as well.  You could be on or near beaches, top notch golf courses, mountains, and beautiful country side if you are into that sort of thing.

Cost of Living:

 

Annapolis, Maryland-136

Richmond, Virginia-109

Virginia Beach, Virginia-107

Norfolk, Virginia-96

Baltimore, Maryland-93

Hampton, Virginia-89

 

Crime Rate (2008):

Baltimore, Maryland-724.9

Norfolk, Virginia-504.4

Annapolis, Maryland-474.2

Richmond, Virginia-452.7

Hampton, Virginia-273.6

Virginia Beach, Virginia-211.7

Cost of Living:

Annapolis, Maryland-136

...

Crime Rate (2008):

Baltimore, Maryland-724.9

Thanks for doing the research but what do these numbers mean?

I am fairly certain it would be preferable to Canada from an economic point of view.

That depends on whether you would use income tax loopholes or not.  But, if you really want low taxes, there are far better places the U.S.

I am fairly certain it would be preferable to Canada from an economic point of view.

That depends on whether you would use income tax loopholes or not.  But, if you really want low taxes, there are far better places the U.S.

Very true. I've looked at it from a few angles, and at least with respect to taxes on income, I think people in Ontario are paying less than some of the states, and roughly the same, otherwise.

But the good thing is that everything you buy in the US these days has about a 20-30% smaller price tag. :)

There are people who never submit income tax returns in both Canada and U.S.  If you remember what Aaron Russo said, it is the essentially the same in Canada.  Most people are too afraid, though.

The DC area, where I live, has probably the nation's most stable employment. But housing costs are very high. And nearly every job is government, law, or lobbying related.

If there are equally well paying jobs in quebec I might just stay there. Canada has this reputation for being socialist but it is in many ways freer than the United States.

Though, the USA is basically where all the top engineering firms are located. If you want to get real experienced and have good recommendations, it might be a good first job to take, even if you move back to canada later.

Btw, Americans make fun of canadians. But it would be cool for you to come down here to show people not everyone's happy with socialised medicine in Canada.

I'm also an engineer, and I had the same dilemma a few years ago.  I worked in Canada for the first few years after graduating, but the salaries in USA were so much higher so I took a job over there.  My situation is sort of unique....I still live in Canada - I just drive across the border every day to work.  A great setup if you can make it work; lower US income tax rates, cheap American gas, "free" Canadian health care, the option to drive over to USA and pay for health care when necessary.

I say move to USA.  Get some good experience under your belt, and pay off your student debt.  If you don't like it, you can always move back.  Not much difference culturally between the two countries - certainly less than the regional differences within each country.  Whenever you feel the urge to say "eh" just say "huh" instead, and you'll blend right in.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice

Whenever you feel the urge to say "eh" just say "huh" instead, and you'll blend right in.

Luckily, I've never said "eh" before.

Do we really have a nationalist libertarian?

Yes.

Angurse:

Is a $40,000 to $50,000 a year job paycheck-to-paycheck in the U.S.?

Many Americans have little clue how the rest of the world lives.

If you're paying US taxes only, $40K USD is like a $55 or $60K CDN standard of living.  Americans have nearly everything cheaper than Canadians do with the exception of housing in some major urban centers.

That said, it is culturally different, and I can't speak authoritatively on the entire US, nor about the taxes of any particular state, but your dollar goes a lot further in the US than it does in Canada.  A LOT further.

Sieben wrote: think America is good if you are going to earn 60+usd/year. For poor people, its kind of the pits... you just live paycheck 2 paycheck and can't really protect yourself. No job security. If you can become upper-middle class, its like you're a different citizen. Nice stuff costs maybe 30% more than crap stuff costs, so just having a little more income can make your life so much better.
 

Not sure what you are trying to say: poor people can;t protect themselves??? no job security?? different citizen?? crap stuff .vs nice stuff?? WTF??

I have been poor and "upper" middle class - as long as you live within your means and save money - all is good...  as far as the difference between what poor and rich can buy - a used toyota or a new lexus - different only in degrees. That is what is great about capitalism - while bill gates can own a plane - even a poor person can fly on one

50k for a single guy outside of a big city will give you a good start  to build a great life.... and don't forget the weather - the experience alone is worth the move good luck.

if it weren't so dam cold - i would give Canada a try for a couple years myself,,,

Sieben:

I think America is good if you are going to earn 60+usd/year. For poor people, its kind of the pits... you just live paycheck 2 paycheck and can't really protect yourself. No job security. If you can become upper-middle class, its like you're a different citizen. Nice stuff costs maybe 30% more than crap stuff costs, so just having a little more income can make your life so much better.

Sounding a lil like a leftist huh?

Always keep in mind America has the richest poor people in the world.

Mike:

poor people can;t protect themselves??? no job security??

Most unskilled laborers are easily replaceable. By definition, your average worker has no way to set himself apart from other workers. People without an education or real skills have to take really difficult jobs to break out of it... I mean rig hands can make $70k+/yr but you'll age twice as fast.

Mike:

different citizen??

Well, its a combination of income, culture, and education, but I don't feel like anyone takes poor people very seriously. And being poor means you interact with lots of poor people. At my current apartment economy-class apt complex, the management doesn't care the people don't care... its just garbage and dog sh*t everywhere.

Mike:

crap stuff .vs nice stuff?? WTF??

If you always have to buy the cheapest everything, you pay 75% the cost for 10% the quality of average stuff... just an empirical observation.

I'm not trying to write an effusive ballad for the unwashed masses. I'm a level 9 anarcho-capitalist wizard and I don't have some ultierior socialist agenda im pushing :P These are simply observations about what its like to be poor in America, particularly in a city. Other's experience may differ, but this is my worldview. I live in Austin Texas btw.

but your dollar goes a lot further in the US than it does in Canada.  A LOT further.

I'll second that statement.

^Is this reflected in the PPP?

"I'm not trying to write an effusive ballad for the unwashed masses. I'm a level 9 anarcho-capitalist wizard and I don't have some ultierior socialist agenda im pushing :P"

Sieben, if it makes you feel any better if you turned out to be a socialist I'd be very sad :(

Baltimore is not as bad as statistics make it seem.  The violent crimes are local to certain blocks in certain neighborhoods, its just that those streets are so bad that it effects the city as a whole (I mean really really bad streets).  The neighborhoods are super segregated though, and most everyone sticks to their area.

As far as cost, you can easily find a 4 BR house renting for under $1000/month.  Things get more expensive as you move towards the suburbs, and the burbs we share with DC are some of the most expensive zip codes in the country.

Baltimore has better culture than those other cities.  One of the local tv stations has a solid libertarian radio show host who has people like Tom Dilorenzo on his show.  Also, we have the best crab cakes.

Sieben:  At my current apartment economy-class apt complex, the management doesn't care the people don't care... its just garbage and dog sh*t everywhere.

 That sucks - I gre up in lower ( not the lowest) income apartments housing - mosly single moms. but it was clean and green. obviously has a lot to do with the individual owner etc.etc.

Sieben: you pay 75% the cost for 10% the quality of average stuff... just an empirical observation.

are you saying that something purchased at Wal-mart .vs some high end place is 75% the cost for 10% the quality?? I don't see that much of a difference in most consumer goods - examples please 

Angurse wrote the following post at Thu, Jul 15 2010 12:25 AM:

"Maryland: Baltimore, Annapolis,

Virginia: Hampton/Norfolk/Virginia Beach, Richmond"

 

I lived in the Baltimore area for 4 years.  It's not bad, but it's more expensive than the Hampton Roads/Norfolk/ Va. Beach area.  The Baltimore - Washington DC Metro Area has a high cost of living.  If you can get north of Baltimore (i.e.: northern Baltimore County, Harford County, etc.) it's not too bad.  West of Baltimore, towards Frederick and Hagerstown isn't too bad either, although they are now considered part of the Balto-DC Metro Area, and the commute along I-270 can be painful.

For Virginia, the largest part of my experience is from living near Fairfax... which is unfortunately close to DC.  The situation is slightly similar since to Baltimore.  Further south and west of where I currently reside sees a nice decrease in the cost of living.  The locations you listed in Virginia aren't bad.  The cost of living is lower than the Balto-DC Metro Area.  Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Va. Beach is home to a major Navy installation, so it's very military oriented.  Richmond is about an hour or so west from that area.

Be prepared for people to not fully pronunciate the word "Maryland".  Locals refer to it as "Merlin"; and "Baltimore" is pronounced, "Balmore" or "Balmer", depending upon where your at; and they like ending sentences with "hun".

Ex. "Welcome to Balmer, Merlin, hun!"

Good luck with the decision and the move!

Average cost of living=100, this is how much stuff in the area costs when you accumulate all general needs.  100 is average, but it's not measured in any specific unit.  The higher the cost of living, the less you will be able to do with your money in that area.

Average crime rate is about 320 I think.  If it's way above this like in Baltimore, it's not a very safe place to live.  If it's at that or below, you don't really have to worry much about crime.  So a crime rate of 160 means crimes occur about half as often as is typical in the U.S., while a rate of 640 means crimes occur twice as often.

Sieben:

I'm a level 9 anarcho-capitalist wizard and I don't have some ultierior socialist agenda im pushing.

That is sig worthy.

Mike:

That sucks - I gre up in lower ( not the lowest) income apartments housing - mosly single moms. but it was clean and green. obviously has a lot to do with the individual owner etc.etc.

Yeah culture is probably a huge factor. I guess not all poor neighborhoods are unkempt, but it certainly is a lot better if you live in an upper-middle class neighborhood.

See this is where class comes in... I'm not city-smart at all but in Austin there's basically north and west Austin, and if you drive up there its like a different state. The grass is green and cut. Big houses, well kept. Not even any oil stains on the road. Their wal-marts have friendly employees, great selection and cleanliness. I could go on. Awesome school districts.

South side of town is the opposite in almost every way possible. Just judging by the make of cars, poor people never get up to the north side and rich people never drive down. There aren't any rules prohibiting interaction, but there's de facto segregation at work here. The poor are kept out of north Austin by higher restaurant prices and gas concerns. I think the wal-mart up there is actually cheaper.

Does the upper-middle class just demand more? Does everyone else let themselves get taken advantage of? Its a complex issue, and I'd like to focus on the culture of socioeconomic groups because its the most obvious. Also our towing companies are really gay. They charged me for TWO days of storage even though my car wasn't in their lot for more than 12 hours. They musta towed it at 11:59 /rant aksfjlasf unions /rant2

Mike:

are you saying that something purchased at Wal-mart .vs some high end place is 75% the cost for 10% the quality?? I don't see that much of a difference in most consumer goods - examples please

A chair is a chair. But I recently went from a $50 chair to a $75 chair to a $300 chair. Subjectively, we'll say that the cheapest chair had utility of "1". For 50% more money, the next chair's utility was "3", and the most expensive's utility is "5". So there are diminishing returns after a point, but at the lower end stuff gets astronomically better. You can see this kind of thing with graphics cards... idk what consumer goods we're both intimately familiar with.

It probably has something to do with the fact that its $35 worth of materials, with $10 manufacturing. So if you doubled the amount of manufacturing work you did you won't be doubling the end cost of the good. Blablabla empirical speculation.

Liberty Student:

That is sig worthy.

You don't like my current sig? I admit my fashion sense is... horrible. My girlfriend is no help because she likes everything I do. *sigh* [EDIT: Had to ghetto format paragraphs... typing from a lame computer. Moving apts etc..."

"Also our towing companies are really gay."

I would think it is a good thing that they are happy...... on a side note, I thought that word was now illegal

 

Your description of Austin is, if acurate, unlike anything I have encountered in numerous US cities. my experience has been that of small pockets of poorer neighborhoods surrounded overall by nicer larger area's where seeing either  the dregs or the beutiful people is not note worthy.

I have lived my whole life in the Maryland suburbs of Washington DC.

I love Maryland, and think its a great place to live.  Just stay away from PG county.  There are lots of happenin' places to live both in DC and Baltimore, although its going to be pricier in DC.  Also in DC, you are going to be surrounded by statist.

In Baltimore, if your straight of of college Federal Hill and Canton are great neighborhoods, I have lots of friends that live there, and visit them a lot.  Can't comment on the day to day, but the nightlife sure is fun, but gets old after a while, and I only visit once a month! Its referred to as Smalltimore for a reason.

 

 

All that said, I am trying to move to New Hampshire this summer as part of the Free State Project.  I feel like its the only place where I could actually DO something as part of the liberty movement and have any kind of impact on the world.

You don't like my current sig? I admit my fashion sense is... horrible. My girlfriend is no help because she likes everything I do. *sigh*\

I like your sig, and I thought that sentence was also worthy of being a great sig.

I'll write it down and keep a list of things that are sig worthy.